Avodah Mailing List

Volume 43: Number 46

Thu, 31 Jul 2025

• 1. cruelty to Bilams Donkey (Rabbi Meir G. Rabi)
• 2. Distractions? (Joel Rich)
• 3. Re: Distractions? (Micha Berger)
• 4. Re: fyi - m'mekomos on TIDE as l'chatchila (from Rabbi Reisman) (Micha Berger)
• 5. Re: New Year for Trees (Micha Berger)

R Danny Schoemann suggested
the only concrete complaint the angel had against Bilam was
"how dare you hit your animal".
Proving that cruelty to animals is a Torah prohibition.

Not sure this perspective is legitimate
I suspect that the word 'DARE' - how dare you hit
is misleading, it is inaccurate
The observation was
how could YOU Bilam, be so blinded by your hatred
that you failed to recognise the message being delivered to you via your
donkey

Besides there is no indication that he hit the donkey and harder than usual
presumably it is permitted to hit animals in order to guide and train them




Best,

Meir G. Rabi

0423 207 837
+61 423 207 837
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????????? ??????????. ?????? ???????? ????????? ? ??????? ????? ???????????
???????? ????????? ????? ???????????? ????????????????.
ben Azzai only whispered this halakha to his students, held that he did so
in order that Torah scholars would not be with their wives like roosters.
If the purification process was that simple, Torah scholars would engage in
sexual activity constantly, which would distract them from their studies.

Any ideas what changed/happened that triggered this concern?

Bsorot tovot

Joel Rich
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RJR's quote of Ben Azzai from https://www.sefaria.org/Berakhot.22a.16-17
got mangled by the digest software anyway. You can find it at that link,
though. Here is a translation of mmore of the gemara than that quote,
because I need more for my response:

    The Sages taught: One who experienced a seminal emission who had
    nine kav of water poured over him, [is thereby] tahor. Nachum Ish
    Gam Zo whispered [this halakhah] to Rabbi Akiva, and Rabbi Akiva
    whispered it to Ben Azzai, and Ben Azzai went out and taught it to
    his students in the marketplace.

    Two amoraim in the West, Rabbi Yosei bar Avin and Rabbi Yosei
    bar Zevida, disagreed One taught: taught it [normally]. And the other
    taught: Ben Azzai whispered it

I am taking the Israeli traditions as in concert with the beraisa. One
is saying Ben Azzai taught it in public as he would teach anything else.
And the other agreeing that was in public, and not just the one-to-one
that we saw until now. But, he whispered it trusting his students not
to spread it further.

    The who who taught that it was taught [normally] held that it was
    due to [concern about] Bitul Torah, and due to [concern about]
    Bitul Piryah veRivyah.

    And the [one] who taught [that ben Azzai] whispered, held that
    it was in order that Torah scholars would not be with their wives
    like roosters.

On Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 07:46:44PM -0400, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> Any ideas what changed/happened that triggered this concern?

Regardless os what "in a whisper" means, the fact is we have LESS
indication that Ben Azzai's generation needed protection from abusing
this din, not more.

But I still don't know what triggered a change.

Maybe it was Ben Azzzai himself. In Yevamos 63a, a numer of tannaim
explain how bad neglecting Piryah veRivyah is. BA compbines the two
prior opinions, saying it is like both shefichas damim and reducing
the Demus [Elokim].

BA himself never got married. He had eiruin with R Aqiva's daughter,
but after years, called it off. (Kesuvos 63a) She tried what her mother
had, but her simple man got too into learning to want to spend time
with marriage.

When R Elazar ben Azaryah asks BA about his own celebecy compare to
what he taught, he answers, "What shall I do? Chashqah nafshi beTorah,
and the world will be preserved through others." So perhaps this is
part of that delegation to others.

A fanciful guess:
Maybe after the plague and the Hadrianic Persecutions (assuming those are
two different things), he wanted there to be more children of Talmidei
Chakhamim to restock the world. Whereas R Aqiva died during Hadrian's
persecution, and didn't live through the reconstruction period.

-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Zion will be redeemed through justice,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   and her returnees, through righteousness.
Author: Widen Your Tent
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF

On Sun, Jun 29, 2025 at 05:07:03PM -0400, mcohen via Avodah wrote:
> Rabbi Reisman -- Parshas Korach 5785
...
> Now this is not the setting to go through the entire response, but I'd
> like to share Rav Yerucham's response. Rav Yerucham did not, to our
> knowledge, write a letter back, but he gave vadim on the topic. And
> Rav Wolbe, his talmid, who wrote a kuntres Adam B'Yakar. Adam B'Yakar
> is a biography of his rebbe, Rav Yerucham. Rav Wolbe signs it (). And
> there, in I believe perek yud gimmel, the entire perek is devoted to
> Rav Yerucham's response.

> The yesod of Rav Yerucham's response was ...
> there are two paths to Gan Eden, two paths to Olam Haba, and they're
> both equally valid paths. One path is the derech ha'tivi, the natural
> path. And one is the al tivi, is the more than natural path. They're two
> paths. The derech ha'tivi is Torah im derech eretz. We know there was
> a Shevet Zevulun and a Shevet Yissachar. We know there were Yidden in
> Eretz Yisrael that worked the land. It's a derech ha'tivi, a derech to go.

> There's a derech me'al tivi, there's a higher path, a higher way to get
> there. The derech she'al tivi, to make it without a plan for parnassa,
> without a clear mahalach. That plan, that derech she'al tivi, is the
> path of kulo Torah. The path of people who want to be ochlei hamon and
> devote themselves to kulo Torah. And that path is only through Torah.

I am more comfortable with REED's formulation, that hishtadlus
is not all-or-nothing, but proportional to bitachon. Which does away
with the "two derakhim" being suggested here, and turns them into
extremes in a range of possible lifestyles.

The absolute lemaaalah min hateva end is for Rashbi, but not the masses.
Abayei famously says (Berakhos 35b) that while both Rashbi and R
Yisma'el's approaches to teva are valid, you need to be a Rashbi to
succeed at his derekh. If tannaim and amora'im couldn't do it, how can
we think thousands of men today can?


And more fundamentally, since when is TiDE about Torah vaAvodah or Torah
uParnasah. RSRH didn't say go get a job. He said that the point of the
Torah is to be maqdish the world, and in order to do that you had to
use Torah to to live properly within and to influence general society.

It's not whether or not dips within teva for their own needs. It's
whether one believes the whole point is to fuse Torah and Olam haZeh.

Still, his closing point is unassailable, even without my ability to
understand his presentation of R Wolbe's presentation of R Yeruchem:

> My point is, when you're planning your vacation, it should be a vacation
> that's me'al tivi, a vacation that's devoted to Torah, to increase time
> in Torah. IY"H we should all be zocheh that we should have a summer of
> aliyah, not chas v'shalom a summer of yerida, a summer meaningful in
> our avodas Hashem.

-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Zion will be redeemed through justice,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   and her returnees, through righteousness.
Author: Widen Your Tent
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF

On Wed, Jul 09, 2025 at 12:52:45PM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> In Kitzur Shulchan Aruch Yomi, today begins Siman 173, Hilchos Orlah. I was
> surprised to find that - according to the Kitzur - the critical dates for
> establishing the age of a tree are 16 Av and 1 Tishre.
> 
> Tu B'Shvat is not mentioned at all by the Kitzur in this siman!

In case not everyone knows, I made Aliyah in December, and moved into
my new home in Jan. We redid the yard, and got two new fruit trees
(oranges and pomegranates, so join the already thriving pomelos).
Three year old trees, planted Rosh Chodesh Shevat.

First pragmatic bit.. Checking that the nursery can be trusted that
they didn't round up the age of the trees.

Second, making sure the trees were moved with sufficient dirt around
them to prevent restarting the clock.

But my LOR said that 2 weeks later, Tu biShvat, started their year of
neta revai.

So what do you see here?

Orlah is indeed RH to RH, because it's about the afe of a plant even
before it can produce fruit. (With the caveat that if a tree is planted
more than 44 days before RH, those 44 days are year one of orlah.)

But orlah doesn't end on RH. After the third year, we don't go by the
age of the tree, but which sap nourished the fruit. And that's when Tu
biShvat comes in.

So Neta Revai is fruit that blossoms after Tu biShvat after that last RH,
and ends with the fruit from blossoms after the TbS after that.

-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Zion will be redeemed through justice,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   and her returnees, through righteousness.
Author: Widen Your Tent
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF


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