Avodah Mailing List

Volume 02 : Number 175

Saturday, February 27 1999

• Where is Hashem in the Megillo?
• redaction of mishna
• Ma'achalos asuros b'ones for tzaddikim
• Bigson vo'Seresh
• Slipper Slope
• Re: Shkiah in Avodah 173
• Re: Ma'achalos asuros b'ones for tzaddikim
• Re: Shkiah in Avodah 173
• Extremely Important Daf Yomi Insight!!!
• Tallis and Tefillin
• Zohar
• Ma'aleh Ashan
• When should service be paid for?
• [none]

Humor: (only slightly related to Purim...)
Q: How do we know for certain there is only One G-d?
A: The Rambam says so, adn the Ra'avad doesn't argue!

Rich Wolpoe

To add a comment to an old topic---in todays Daf we learn avout a story
where a kohen Gadol is pulled out of the Kodesh because he's davening for
too long. WHen he asks the people what the problem is , they say" we have
learned (shanenu) that the Kohen Gadol shouldn't daven to long as not to
scare the
Jews" the TY (quoted by Tosfos Yeshanim) identifies the kohen Gadol as
Shimon Hatzadik who lives hundreds of years before the Mishna was
redacted, yet we see there was reference made to a learned law which
appears in the Mishna. This could show that some parts which would later
become
the Mishan were already in existence much earlier. To conclude with my
line on purim Torah or in this case Yom KIpurim Torah. How do we know that
a shliach tzibbur shouldn't drag out Yom kippur davening (or any davening
for that matter) we learn from the kohen Gadol, if he davened too long the
tzibbur literally dragged him down.
Elie Ginsparg

How could the gemera (Megilla 13a acc. to rashi, see Tos. al atar who is
choleik) say Esther ate ma'achalos asuros - mah b'hemtam shel tzaddikim ain
Hashem mavi takalah l'yadam, tzaddikim atzmam lo kal she'kain (Gittin 7a) -
tzaddikim are never nichshal in ma'achalos asuros?  

-Chaim

My LOR favore R. Y. Zirkind's teirutz, that since it was to save Achashverisoh's
life, she was no in danger.  IOW when they might have dragged her off, she could
say she was protecting the king...

I fvaor REDTeitz's Teiruts, that Bigson etc. was while they were newlyweds, but 
the Haman maase was much later...

Rich Wolpo

RYGB:As usual on Avodah we turn every halachic issue into a crisis of faith!
:-). There are no clear cut answers to your questions. Motivations are
critical. For example, how terrible is it, really, from a strict halachic
standpoint, to have an organ played by a non-Jew on Shabbos in a synagogue
- - but, boy, was it ever terrible l'ma'aseh! So, it is possible to overturn
many things - in theory. In practice, who does the overturning and under
what circumstances, is a very subjective and situational thing.<<

I concur.  I jsut want to say for the record that I am STILL uncomfortable 200 
years plus later that both the GRO and Chassidism overturned the prevailing 
mihogim WRT to litrugy etc. throughout Eastern Europe.  I have no doubt of their
pure intentions.  From a historical perspective I think it set a very dangerous 
precedent.  I beleive that R. Nosson Adler was thrown out of Frankfurt for 
re-introducing Duchaning on a daily basis.

Now on a private or ad-hoc basis I do understand that we can revive certain 
minhogim.  But wholesale breaches with overwhelmingly prevalent minhogim could 
call large pieces of Mesorah into question.  (And I believe they did!)

Good Purim.
Rich Wolpoe

Please note that the Shitas HaGra UBa'al HaTanya about Shkiah is also the
Shitas HaGeonim and the Minchas Cohen (predating the Gra etc.) brings
down their shitos.
If the Group is interested I  will expand on this.

On Fri, 26 Feb 1999 C1A1Brown@aol.com wrote:

> How could the gemera (Megilla 13a acc. to rashi, see Tos. al atar who is
> choleik) say Esther ate ma'achalos asuros - mah b'hemtam shel tzaddikim ain
> Hashem mavi takalah l'yadam, tzaddikim atzmam lo kal she'kain (Gittin 7a) -
> tzaddikim are never nichshal in ma'achalos asuros?  
> 
> -Chaim
> 
See the Ben Yehoyada on this gemara, it won't answer for Rash, but it
gives a p'shat which explains many questions with the Yesod that Esther
manipulated a SHAID while she was in Achveirosh's palace
Elie Ginsparg---

On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Shlomo Yaffe wrote:

> If the Group is interested I  will expand on this.
> 

Why not?!

YGB

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL, 60659
ygb@aishdas.org, http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila

A new member of my daf yomi shiur -- relatively new to learning in general
- was present for one of the dappim on which we discussed ma'aleh ashan,
the herb.

He said he knows one herb that produces smoke exactly as described:

(THIS IS FOR REAL, NOT PURIM TORAH!)
(Oh, btw - can we get from the as always uproariously hilarious R' Eli
Clark a bona fide spoof on "Avodah"?)

Marijuana!

This leads to all sorts of transcendent meditations...

Good Shabbos and Freilichen Purim!

YGB

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL, 60659
ygb@aishdas.org, http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila

>>I saw a picture in the Friday Chicago Tribune of a women davening at the
edah conference with Tallis and tefillen, she said she felt confortable
doing so in such a crowd. Exactly what part of orthodoxy does this represent????
Elie Ginsparg<<

It is obvious that someone's Tallis and Tefillin had slipped out of its bag and 
the woman in question was putting them on, on her way to perform hashovos 
aveido! <smile>
Good Purim to all. Rich Wolpoe 

It is obvious that RSBY anticipated Medeival terminology as well as literary 
style, simply by virtue of his ability to see the future via Kabbolo.  this not 
only proves RSBY was the author, but that Zohar works to predict the future!  
<smile> R. Wolpoe

IIRC, when I was in NCSY I heard R' Aryeh Kaplan offer a similar idea. While it
stuck in my head that he included marijuana in the recipe for ketores, I do not
recall which Hebrew word he was addressing.

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287          MMG"H for 26-Feb-99: Shishi, Tetzaveh
micha@aishdas.org                                         A"H O"Ch 301:160-166
http://www.aishdas.org                                    Eruvin 41b
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.         Haftorah

>Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:52:22 -0600 (CST)
>From: "Shoshanah M. & Yosef G. Bechhofer" <sbechhof@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
>Subject: Re: Avodah V2 #170
>
>That would be true if I could not go to my corner shu or llibrary and >find the volume there, but since I can, the seller is not providing me >with a service that elsewise I need pay for.

I don't understand.  Does this mean since I can borrow my father's car I
do not need to pay Avis rental fees?

Subject: 4 captives

   A short description of some of the problems with the story of 4
captives in Sefer HaKabalah by Raavad I

1.  Raavad says the story happened in the year 4790 (990 CE).
However, the Muslim king of Spain Abd ar-Rahman died in 961
30 years earlier.
He further states that the events happened when Sherira Gaon was
in power,  However, he became Gaon in 968 after Rahman died.

2. Part of the story discusses a conflict between R. Hanoch and
Ibn Shatnash with Ibn Shatnash being banned from Spain.
However, in the Genizah there are letters showing that Ibn Shatnash
was on good terms with R. Shemariah the Gaon of the Palestianian
community and also Rav Hai Gaon.

3. The biggest problem is a letter from R. Hushiel to R. Shemariah
ben Elhanan stating that R. Hushiel cam to Kairowan on his
own free will with a trip that he was planning to Cairo.
There is no hint of any pirates or that the two of them were together
in this boat. (see S. Schecter, Geniza Specimens: A Letter of Chushiel,
JQR XI (1899) 643-650)

R. Berel Wein in his book introduces the story of the 4 captives as 
shrouded in legend and question. However, he refers to a sefer  
Iyyun v'Cheker by Shimon Eppenstein which I do not have access to. 
If anyone has read this account I would be interested.

kol tuv,
Eli Turkel

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