Avodah Mailing List

Volume 05 : Number 037

Sunday, May 7 2000

• yom tov sheni
• yom haazmaut
• [none]
• Re: Sources on each word divine
• Re: sources on each word divine
• Ym Jirtzah Hashem vs B'li Neder
• Re: Ym Jirtzah Hashem vs B'li Neder
• Re: Ym Jirtzah Hashem vs B'li Neder
• Re: Ym Jirtzah Hashem vs B'li Neder
• Re: Ym Jirtzah Hashem vs B'li Neder

I have a book "tzedah lederech" written about 10-15 years with halachot
for the traveller. It is by Yehayahu Shapira (a principal in Alon Shvut)
and rabbinic advisor is R. Shlomo min-hahar (Rav of Bayit Vegan).

He says that an Israeli who is returning within 3 years to Israel can do work
on yom tov sheni in "private". The definition of private is that no local
person knows about it. In particular he can not do work for a local Jew.
As such he can call to Israel ("bet hazorech"). The Israelis can have a
minyan as long as no locals participate.

At the back of the sefer is responsa to the question of an Israeli shalicah
outside of Israel.

R. Moshe says that they have the law of a "cutznik" both for chumrah and kulah.
R. Eliyahu says that one cannot do work even in private but since it is a
disagreement he should ask a Rav in case of necessity - daven as an Israeli
and do a second seder without berachot

R. Goren says most poskim prohibit work even in private but according to thr
Taz it is ok but only if it is not recognizable light lighting a fire. He
cannot use public transportation. No chametz on the 8th of pesach

If he is not a shaliach but a private person who will return shortly to
Israel he does need to observe yom tov sheni in private.

Eli Turkel

Our rabbi brought a story (which he could not verify) that the son of
R. Neriah once asked the Steipler R. if he could day "shehechiyanu" on
yom
haatzmaut. He was told that if he really had simchat halev then he
could.

He also mentioned that RZV Kook was very makpid that people should shave
on 
yom haatzmaut.

Eli Turkel

>Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 20:42:24 -0500
>From: Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org
>Subject: Re: Sources on each word divine

>As far as I can see, the IE keeps the writing of the Torah to within the
>Yetzias Mitzrayim period. This is quite likely his equivalent of the
Rambam's
>requirement in belief that it was all given to Moshe.

I would beg to disagree. Again, I would suggest that you have a look at the
IE's "Sod of the Shnayim Asar" at the beginning of Sefer Devorim. Aparently,
the Yam shel Shlomo had no doubt as to what the IE was saying - hence his
very harsh words. (He was not alone).

David Hojda

On Fri, May 05, 2000 at 06:42:44PM +0200, David and Tamar Hojda wrote:
:> As far as I can see, the IE keeps the writing of the Torah to within the
:> Yetzias Mitzrayim period. This is quite likely his equivalent of the Rambam's
:> requirement in belief that it was all given to Moshe.

: I would beg to disagree. Again, I would suggest that you have a look at the
: IE's "Sod of the Shnayim Asar" at the beginning of Sefer Devorim. Aparently,
: the Yam shel Shlomo had no doubt as to what the IE was saying - hence his
: very harsh words. (He was not alone).

I will iy"h get there. Last time a looked it over was around a year ago,
in a viku'ach with a Conservative Rabbi in another internet venue. I also
looked over Friedman's popularizations of document hypothesis. (BTW, was
that muttar? Was it only muttar because of the "da mah lehashiv" aspect?)

However, what the IE meant by this sowd, it can't be a general heter to believe
that things were inserted later, as he himself has choice words for a R'
Yitzchak Hay?sh?sh (I never figured out the nikud) for saying so about the
list of Edomite kings, which continue (in his opinion) past Moshe's lifetime.


BTW, a question to ask when dealing with any non-mekubal -- how does the IE
define "sowd"?

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287          MMG"H for  3-May-00: Revi'i, Kedoshim
micha@aishdas.org                                         A"H 
http://www.aishdas.org                                    Rosh-Hashanah 34a
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.         Yeshaiah 3

R' Josh wrote:

>>You quote the Ibn Ezra ?? Look at the Hakdama of the Yam shel Shlomo Bava 
Kamma, 2nd page 1st column on what he writes about the Ibn Ezra :-)>>

Doesn't tosafos quote the Ibn Ezra a few times regarding peshat on Tanach?

Gil Student
gil.student@citicorp.com

>>Seems to me that in my youth we used to say, "I will, b'li neder, do such and 
such." I do not recall people saying, "I will, Im Yirtzah Hashem to such and 
such."  Could it be that this represents a differnce in hashkafah? In the reisha
we are saying, I don't promise but I will do my utmost to do as I said.  In the 
seifah, might we not understand that I'll do it if HKBH helps me do it. In one 
the former case the reliance is  on the self while in the latter case, well, 
I'll do it but it's really is out of my hands so don't hold it against me if it 
does not get done.>>

Al pi halachah, if you say you are going to do a mitzvah it has the strength of 
a neder even if you don't use any neder language.  If you say you are going to 
do something that is not a mitzvah and don't use any neder language then there 
is no reason to say bli neder.

Also, since the ratzon Hashem is that we have free will to chose whether or not 
to do mitzvos, it doesn't make much sense to say "im yirtzeh Hashem" regarding a
mitzvah.  It should be "im yirtzeh ani".

Gil Student
gil.student@citicorp.com

On Fri, May 05, 2000 at 12:31:00PM -0400, Gil.Student@citicorp.com wrote:
: Also, since the ratzon Hashem is that we have free will to chose whether
: or not to do mitzvos, it doesn't make much sense to say "im yirtzeh Hashem"
: regarding a mitzvah. It should be "im yirtzeh ani".

To choose, yes, to succeed in fulfilling, no. As anyone who is infertile can
tell you, there is much "im yirtzeh Hashem" in fulfilling piryah virivyah.

Which brings me to an email I've had in my pocket for the last day to remind
me to discuss it here. In his weekly d'var Torah, R' Mordechai Kamenetzky
consistantly includes a story to illustrate his point. This week he writes:

> Once, a student brought [R' Elchonon Wasserman] to visit a wealthy man who
> had a philanthropic reputation. The bachur was confident that the meeting
> would prove successful. Unfortunately, the expectations proved fruitless,
> and Reb Elchonon and the student were shown to the door, empty-handed.

> The young man left the house and sat down on the steps of the mansion utterly
> dejected. Reb Elchonon, who was quite tall, bent down to him, "Why are you
> so upset?" he asked softly.

> "Upset? Why shouldn't I be upset? This man has the ability to support your
> whole yeshiva for a year, and he sent us away as if he does not have the
> ability to give even a dime!"

> Reb Elchonon smiled. "The Torah tells us that Moshe was told to choose
> Betzalel to build the Mishkan. Let us assume that Moshe went in the street
> and asked where he could find Betzalel. Moshe was told that Betzalel could be
> found in the Bais Medrash. He went into the Bais Medrash and asked someone,
> 'Are you Betzalel?' The man said no. Should Moshe have been upset? Of
> course not! It's not the man's fault that he was not Betzalel! He was not
> born Betzalel and his job was obviously not to be Betzalel! Moshe went to
> another man. Are You Betzalel? Again the man said no! Should Moshe have been
> angry with him? Again, of course not!

> "Well, my son," continued Reb Elchonon, "You can't be upset with him! He is
> just not the man that was chosen to help!"

Note that in the way this story is told, R' Elchanan plays down the role of
bechirah. IOW, perhaps this man was Betzalel, or more accurately for him,
Yonah -- who had the calling to be the one to help, but fled from it.


BTW, a problem with "im yirtzeh Hashem" is that it robs the rest of the
sentence of content. For example, "IY"H I will be at the kiddush"
is no more or less true than "IY"H it will rain pink and purple striped
elephants tomorrow." After all, if He so wills it, why not?

I like the bakashah form, "b'ezras Hashem". It more directly reminds you that
you need His assistance to see your plans through, and doesn't reduce your
sentence to a trivial truth.

-mi

-- 
Micha Berger (973) 916-0287          MMG"H for  3-May-00: Revi'i, Kedoshim
micha@aishdas.org                                         A"H 
http://www.aishdas.org                                    Rosh-Hashanah 34a
For a mitzvah is a lamp, and the Torah its light.         Yeshaiah 3

RAE Kaplan writes somewhere that in Europe the custom was, because of some
sense of Yiras Shomayim, not to frequently invoke Hashem, even as a kinnui,
in regular conversation. That is what has changed, perhaps - as Boaz
instituted Beracha b'Shem, so too we need more reminders of lifnei me anu
omdim.

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila    ygb@aishdas.org

On Fri, May 05, 2000 at 12:38:28PM -0500, Yosef Gavriel and Shoshanah M. Bechhofer wrote:
: RAE Kaplan writes somewhere that in Europe the custom was, because of some
: sense of Yiras Shomayim, not to frequently invoke Hashem, even as a kinnui,
: in regular conversation. That is what has changed, perhaps - as Boaz
: instituted Beracha b'Shem, so too we need more reminders of lifnei me anu
: omdim.

And yet, balance it against sheim Hashem lashav (SHL).

Perhaps that's why we use "Shalom Aleichem / Aleichem Shalom", where Shalom is
explained by many to be a sheim, or at least a kinuy. The intent is similar
to Boaz's, but there is no SHL in speaking about peace -- even if one intends
the meaning to be "Peace".

-mi

On 5 May 2000, at 11:49, Micha Berger wrote:

> BTW, a problem with "im yirtzeh Hashem" is that it robs the rest of the
> sentence of content. For example, "IY"H I will be at the kiddush"
> is no more or less true than "IY"H it will rain pink and purple striped
> elephants tomorrow." After all, if He so wills it, why not?
> 
> I like the bakashah form, "b'ezras Hashem". It more directly reminds you that
> you need His assistance to see your plans through, and doesn't reduce your
> sentence to a trivial truth.

Although I have no source, I remember hearing somewhere that 
IY"H is used when it is not certain that Hashem will want 
something to occur, such as "IY"H I will go to America this 
summer," while BE"H is used it is relatively certain that Hashem 
wants the event to occur, like "BE"H my son's bris will be at such 
and such a time and place."

-- Carl


Carl M. Sherer, Adv.
Silber, Schottenfels, Gerber & Sherer
Telephone 972-2-625-7751
Fax 972-2-625-0461
mailto:cmsherer@ssgslaw.co.il
mailto:sherer@actcom.co.il

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.

********************


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