Avodah Mailing List

Volume 19: Number 3

Wed, 06 Sep 2006

• 1. Re: Shape of Luchos (Micha Berger)
• 2. Re: Nishtaneh Hateva in modern women (Samuel Svarc)
• 3. Re: Shape of Luchos (Simon Montagu)
• 4. TAKKANAT RABBEINU GERSHOM_MAIL (Rich, Joel)
• 5. "kula" for gerim of patrilineal descent? (Seth & Sheri Kadish)
• 6. Re: TAKKANAT RABBEINU GERSHOM_MAIL (Zev Sero)
• 7. Sukkah GT 20 amot high (yesterday's daf) (Rich, Joel)
• 8. Re: Safek Mamzer (Micha Berger)

On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 10:50:11PM -0400, Zvi Lampel wrote:
: Some weeks ago I spent a Shabbos in the Yeshiva of Staten Island,
: whose Aron has a depiction with the curved tops. But I then noticed that
: going along the bottom of the luchos was a solid gold-colored curve. It
: occurred to me that perhaps it was really a corrupted depiction ...
:                of an open book, the way one would draw it--two curves
: at the top and two at the bottom.

I thought that it's pretty well accepted that the current image
of the luchos is a product of Michaelangelo's creativity. (See
<http://tinyurl.com/5ee84> for image of statue in question.)

-mi

>From: hankman <salman@videotron.ca>
>Subject: Re: [Avodah] Pregnant women's sakana brought on by sense of
>	smell
>
> <BIG SNIP>
>BTW, it seems to be generally accepted that we already apply the idea
of
>nishtane hateva wrt to the menstrual cycle of modern women as different
>from
>that in the time of chazal.

Could you elaborate? If you are referring to vest kavauh, the nishtaneh
was (at least in major part) the invention of indoor electric lighting.
A woman can induce more regular periods if she goes to sleep at sundown
with the light in the room reflecting the moons light; i.e. a full moon
= a small night light, no moon = darkness.

This would jibe with women in Yerusalem 50 years ago, as well as poor
women in Africa.

KT,
MSS

On 9/5/06, Micha Berger <micha@aishdas.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 30, 2006 at 10:50:11PM -0400, Zvi Lampel wrote:
> : Some weeks ago I spent a Shabbos in the Yeshiva of Staten Island,
> : whose Aron has a depiction with the curved tops. But I then noticed that
> : going along the bottom of the luchos was a solid gold-colored curve. It
> : occurred to me that perhaps it was really a corrupted depiction ...
> :                of an open book, the way one would draw it--two curves
> : at the top and two at the bottom.
>
> I thought that it's pretty well accepted that the current image
> of the luchos is a product of Michaelangelo's creativity. (See
> <http://tinyurl.com/5ee84> for image of statue in question.)
>

It's much earlier than Michelangelo. An article in the first volume of
the Hebrew University's "Journal of Jewish Art" by Ruth Mellinkoff
says that the earliest known depiction of curved-top tablets is in a
manuscript from the first half of the 11th century CE.

She also says that the curved-top form is originally a representation
of a "diptych" or set of two writing tablets, so RZL's conjecture is
apparently not far away from da'at gedolim :)

Where can I find the original or earliest recorded version?
KT
Joel Rich
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>>I heard that there is a teshuva by Rav Moshe Feinstein that the child
of a Jewish father and non-Jewish mother can be encouraged to
convert.  Does anyone know where I could find this teshuva?  What are
the halachic sources for this approach?

This is a shittah that has been held by many poskim in modern times, ever
since intermarriage became prevalent in Western societies. I didn't remember
that is was also davka in a teshuva of Rav Moshe, but then again I haven't
reviewed this in quite a while and I wouldn't be surprised... :-)

For halakhic sources, the absolute best is the two volume compendium of
sources on giyyur published by Yeshivat Or Etzion (not to be confused with
Har Etzion). The first volume collects mekorot on giyyur in cases of
intermarriage, and the second volume on giyyur of the children of
intermarriage ("zera yisrael"). The second volume was published recently,
and I haven't seen it yet (so I can't look anything up). Note that these
volumes collect nearly every relevant makor, from all perspectives, but
nothing more than that.

In any case, the concept that we encourage the conversion of "zera yisrael"
was most famously held by Rav Uzziel, the Rishon le-Tzion in the time of Rav
Kook and later. In terms of the mekorot that I do have at hand at the
moment, see Shu"t Piskei Uzziel be-She'elot ha-Zeman 65, as well as Shu"t
Rav Azriel Hildesheimer vol. 1, Yoreh Deah 229. The conversion courts of the
Israeli Chief Rabbinate encourage giyyur in these cases based on this
shittah.

You also might be intersted in Meir Uzziel's relflections on his
grandfather's legacy regarding this matter. He wrote a very moving piece
(without making judgements on it one way or another) found here:

http://www.nrg.co.il/online/archive/ART/524/266.html

Seth (Avi) Kadish

????? ??? ?????? - ????? ??????
http://www.seforimonline.org/seforim7.html (#169-172)

?????? ??????? ??????
http://www.makorrishon.co.il/show.asp?id=7467

????? ?????? ?????? ???????
A Guide to Reading Nevi'im & Ketuvim
http://skadish1.googlepages.com/guide

Rich, Joel wrote:
> Where can I find the original or earliest recorded version?

AFAIK there is no original record anywhere of any of RGMH's charamot.
That's why there is a dispute about whether the most famous cherem,
the one on polygamy, had a sunset date, and if so what it was.

The earliest list I'm aware of is in the Kol Bo.

-- 
Zev Sero               Something has gone seriously awry with this Court's
zev@sero.name          interpretation of the Constitution.
                       	                          - Clarence Thomas

Yesterday's Daf gives 3 reasons why a Sukkah higher than 20 Amot is
Pasul.
(1) Rabah - Lo shalta bei eyna
(2) Rav Zeira - One is not sitting in the tzel of the Sukkah
(3) Rava - LT  20 is a temporary dwelling
Any insights on how the 20 amot was arrived at. Are 1 and 3 inherent in
the briah or subject to change (or are they like treifot-fixed in time).
Is 2 geometrically defensible?  Is all this really descriptive rather
than prescriptive?

KT
Joel Rich

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On Fri, September 1, 2006 11:07 am, R Harry Weiss wrote:
: You are correct that if someone is declared a safek mamzer, they would be
: in a worse situation than a vaadai mamzer.
: In real Psak that I have seen or heard of, poskim have taken the safek and
: used it declare that person is a vadai non mamzer.  The posek will look
: for another safek to make it a sfeik sfeika or some other method....

Usually you can invoke a chezqas kashrus.

However, there is a notable exception -- an adoptee, where so many are
concieved in less-than-kosher ways that there is no chezqas kashrus. This is
why it USED TO BE advised to adopt a non-Jew and be megayeir him/her rather
than adopt a Jew.


Two more Areivim-dik things though that I must say here lest someone get the
wrong impression from the above:

Most importantly, it's not too lemaaseh anymore, since nearly all adoptions
are sufficiently "open" that one can do the necessary research to eliminate
the safeiq.

Second, I never understood the advice. This child will be a safeiq mamzeir and
a Jew regardless. *Someone* has to take this child in, and if the frum world
doesn't the child will be subject to shmad. (Usually literally -- there are
"faith-based charities" that will jump at the chance of finding a home for a
Jewish child amongst theirs.)
Not to mention the possibility of the poor kid having to go through life
single (barring a giyores willing to have safeiq mamzeirim for children and
grandchildren) AND without parents.

-mi
http://www.aishdas.org/asp



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