Avodah Mailing List

Volume 23: Number 140

Fri, 22 Jun 2007

• 1. Re: Avodah Kos Shel Bracha (D&E-H Bannett)
• 2. Re: Torah Study vs. other contributions to society (Micha Berger)
• 3. Rashi on Shas etc (SBA)
• 4. kinnim (Sholom Simon)
• 5. vestos (A & C Walters)
• 6. Tzvei dinim to bitel torah (A & C Walters)
• 7. Har Habayit (Yisrael Medad)
• 8. korbonos by mincha gedoyle (A & C Walters)
• 9. Treifot question (Rich, Joel)
• 10. Re: korbonos by mincha gedoyle (Zev Sero)

In describing a possible development of kiddush, RAM wrote<< 
it was
understood by all that "Zachor es yom hashabbos l'kadsho" 
requires us
to not only remember Shabbos mentally, but to actually 
verbalize it
with words. For some period of time, each person was careful 
to say
such a thing each Shabbos. >>

Why limit such verbalization to Shabbos?  Methinks zakhor 
l'kad'sho applies to all the days of the week.  Therefore, 
my sons were told that if, for some reason, they couldn't 
say the shir shel yom, they should still say every morning 
"Hayom yom XXX  b"Shabbat Kodesh".

David 

On Sun, June 10, 2007 8:16 pm, R Doron Beckerman wrote:
: Whoa. I'm a little more broad minded than that! What I said was this,
: and is limited to this:
:>> I think your comments on *TuM enhancing understanding that Torah is
:>> the Chochmah of the Borei* are not in sync with the Torah's
:>> Hashkafah.

: Can you tell me a source that Madda enhances understanding that Torah
: is Chochmah of the Borei? (Not that Madda enhances understanding the
: Chochmah of the Borei, but that Madda enhances understanding that
: *Torah* is Chochmas HaBorei, more so that learning Torah without
: Madda does)

I am not sure what you're saying, since you seem to be making a
vehement statement "not in sync with the Torah's Hashkafah" about a
subtle and not that central point.

Say someone believes that histakeil beOraisa uvarei alma means that
one could therefore deduce the beauty of the Torah by studying the
alma. Even if you're convinced he's wrong, are you saying that he is
"not in sync with the Torah's hashkafah"?

What about the person who feels that learning Torah helps one
understand that Torah is Chokhmas haBorei, and agrees with the Gra
that a lack of other limudim will deprive someone of 100 yadayim of
Torah and the help it could have been to them?

...
: IIUC, you agree that Binyan BHM"Q should be prioritized behind Talmud
: Torah when choosing what to do. This is true even during the time that
: Ezra was eating or resting - he was not supposed to get up from his
: meal or bed and go build the BHM"Q, but to go back and learn under
: Baruch ben Neriya.

I'm not sure about the last sentence. Ezra couldn't commute from
Barukh's beis medrash in Bavel to and from Y-m. He had to put BBHMQ
entirely off, and not alternate tasks.


: Why, then, do you distinguish between this and Gadol TT MeHatzalas
: Nefashos, and, if there is a distinction, what grants the Taz license
: to prove anything from how to understand TT vs. Hatzalah from TT
: vs. BBHM"Q? The Taz says explicitly that these two statements are
: identical in their import.

Again, not lema'aseh. No one leaves the gemara saying that we follow
Ezra's example and not Mordechai's. Which also answers your question
at the beginning of the paragraph; in one case the aphorism runs
against the example set, in the other, it supports and explains it.

The Taz says explicitly (YD 251:14 #6) that the gemara is a problem in
the SA's pesaq about reallocating the money, but his masqanah is that
the SA is right -- hatzalas nefashos does come first. The is no
lema'aseh conclusion placing hatzalas nefashos after TT here.

However, there is in a different inyan -- interrupting seider. I would
argue that if he bothers writing that one may not interrupt learning
in order to save a life that someone else could save, presumably if he
was only about to learn or deciding what to do and could learn, TT
comes second.

Placing hatzalas nefashos after TT would also not fit other pesaqim
already mentioned by others, such as the Rama's insistence that
learning without earning one's own parnasah is garu'ah, that tangent I
went on with RYHutner and "ma'arich es hasheim", etc...

:> The CS needs to give an alternate explanation for the negative
:> judgment of Mordechai which would seem to say he holds that the
:> exchange of Torah for hatzalas nefashos would not in-and-of-itself
:> justify the judgment. And thus he says it was based on Mordechai's
:> learning being the one Hashem considers more interruptible.

: Where is the CS?

Parashas Zachor pg 193.

I am repeating myself somewhat from things I wrote in
<http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol23/v23n123.shtml#01>.

: Again, I never said such a thing. I began by asking whether TuM
: accepted that Torah study was superior to any other contribution to
: society, and, if not, what the sources were for equating other
: contributions to society to Torah study. That "Torah Hashkafah" thing
: was on a very limited point.

Since I seem to be wrapping up this thread by returning to my major
points all in one place...

RYWolbe has a seifer on the 7 mitzvos described as "keneged kulam". TT
is not unique in getting this compliment, and therefore hard to say
it's superior in all ways to all other mitzvos. (Except according to
the TYT.)

But I think TuM would say that this whole ranking is what doesn't
work. Life is supposed to be a chulent or "a balanced diet", "broad",
not deciding what one thing is most important and only doing that.

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Spirituality is like a bird: if you tighten
micha@aishdas.org        your grip on it, it chokes; slacken your grip,
http://www.aishdas.org   and it flies away.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            - Rav Yisrael Salanter

Discussion re which mesechtos are not his work:

http://bh.hevre.co.il/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=2227547

I've learned that the blood of an animal chatas gets thrown "above 
the line" of the mizbeach, and for an olah, below the line.

Now in Kinnim, I learn that it's the opposite for a bird chatas and olah.

Any thoughts as to why?  Or deeper significance?

-- Sholom

This shayle came up last night in kollel.

 

A woman who sees: 

 

22 shevat

21 odor

20 nisan

18 iyar

16 sivan (and continues for a few days)

 

what does she need to be choshes for in Tamuz, Ov, Ellul?

 



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Reb Boruch Ber ztvkl"a explains that in bitel torah there are tzvei (two)
dinim; one being shev ve'al taaseh (when one could learn but isn't) and one
being kum v'asay (learning something else actively instead of learning). He
also klers - is the heter to work a d'chiye (dehaynu, there is bitel torah,
but it is mutar in this case) or is there no bitel torah at all. (He holds
the second tzad)

He also brings the Reb Chaim tzvkl"a that Reb Chaim was asked during the war
if he could work in an office to avoid the draft, even though it would
require writing on shabbos. Reb Chaim mattird because pekuach nefesh is
docheh shabbos. A second person asked if he could go to university to avoid
the draft. Reb Chaim paskened that yehareg ve'al yovo (it's minus).

However, to learn secular subjects, not bekevius, by oneself is mutar (as
per the Ram"o YD 246)

> As for the person who took time off his learning in order to earn  
> parnassah,
> my rav says that working for a living is a mitzva and that the time a
person 
> spends working is not considered batala.  However, he is very strict
about 
> every non-working minute -- every minute not working should be spent
learning 
> -- and he would highly disapprove of reading secular literature --  or 
> spending time on the 'net.  (He does glance at the NY Times, probably in
the room 
> the Gra used to study math, probably because he holds there is to'eles  in
being 
> an informed person, or possibly because he could not otherwise distract  
> himself from having hirhurim of Torah in an inappropriate place.)

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To perhaps help out with the physical layout of the Har Habayit, further to
the recent discussions, may I suggest viewing my blogpsot from today
reporting on a new study here:

http://myrightword.blogspot.com/2007/06/temple-mount-research.html
-- 
Yisrael Medad
Shiloh
Mobile Post Efraim 44830
Israel
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Bs"d

 

I was thinking today. Mincha Gedoyle is (in J'lem) exactly 1:15pm. If the
minyan starts at exactly this time, when could a person say korbonos. Since
the amiras korbonos are bemokom the bringing thereof, presumably it would
have to be said at a time where they could be brought. Since we cannot bring
korbonos before mincha gedoyle, is there any inyan at all to say the
parshios of korbonos before this time (ie at 1:10pm). Obviously, there is a
mitsveh of TT, and this is no worse than any other pesukim/mishnayos, but is
it better? What about the yehi rotsons? Any eitsehs (maybe to say after SE,
but I've never seen this)

 

Good shabbos 



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To paraphrase R' YBS - I don't know the halacha or the science but:

Can current x-ray, MRI, PET technology provide clear enough data to
check a cows lungs for kashrut?
Is ability to touch required or was this just the most efficient
halachik approach available?

KT
Joel Rich
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A & C Walters wrote:

> I was thinking today. Mincha Gedoyle is (in J?lem) exactly 1:15pm. If 
> the minyan starts at exactly this time, when could a person say 
> korbonos. Since the amiras korbonos are bemokom the bringing thereof, 
> presumably it would have to be said at a time where they could be 
> brought. Since we cannot bring korbonos before mincha gedoyle, is there 
> any inyan at all to say the parshios of korbonos before this time (ie at 
> 1:10pm). Obviously, there is a mitsveh of TT, and this is no worse than 
> any other pesukim/mishnayos, but is it better? What about the yehi 
> rotsons? Any eitsehs (maybe to say after SE, but I?ve never seen this)

The requirement to wait half an hour after noon before bringing the
korban tamid is just a precaution, at a time when they didn't have
clocks, to be sure that it really is after noon and not before.  Once
the sun's shadow has noticeably lengthened, we know that it's definitely
"bein ha'arbayim", and it's OK to bring the korban.  It just happens
that that process normally takes half an hour.  So if you did bring the
korban within that half-hour, but you had an accurate clock and know
that it was after noon, you didn't really do anything wrong, and there's
no need to bring it again.  Therefore, for the purpose of the minhag to
say korbanot, one can definitely do it in that half-hour.  And if one
happened to make a mistake and said it before noon "iz oich nisht
gefehrlach".

In the 3rd BHMK, when there will be accurate clocks, lav davka that
they will wait the full half-hour, especially on an Erev Pesach that
falls on Erev Shabbos.


-- 
Zev Sero               Something has gone seriously awry with this Court's
zev@sero.name          interpretation of the Constitution.
                       	                          - Clarence Thomas


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