Avodah Mailing List

Volume 25: Number 140

Fri, 18 Apr 2008

• 1. Re: western wall (Michael Makovi)
• 2. Re: FW: Eat Karpas - Leaning? (SBA)
• 3. Re: Exempt from Loshon Hara (Moshe Y. Gluck)
• 4. Re: Denying that Chazal are Oral Torah is Kefira? (Moshe Y. Gluck)
• 5. Re: rare Pesach (Aryeh Stein)
• 6. Re: western wall (Arie Folger)
• 7. Re: Sholom Aleichem [was: Tinok Shenishba] (Daniel Israel)
• 8. Re: rare Pesach (Daniel Israel)
• 9. Re: western wall (Daniel Israel)
• 10. Vihgadto Levincho (SBA)
• 11. Re: B'Din Heseiba L'Ikuva (kennethgmiller@juno.com)
• 12. Re: Exempt from Loshon Hara (kennethgmiller@juno.com)
• 13. Re: rare Pesach (Simon Montagu)
• 14. Re: B'Din Heseiba L'Ikuva (Harry Maryles)
• 15. Re: Vihgadto Levincho (Micha Berger)
• 16. Re: Eat Karpas - Leaning? (Yitzhak Grossman)

> nevertheless Chazal seem to praise Herod for rebuilding the Temple and
> say that it was the most beautiful building.
> After killing the chachamim the remaining ones seemed to encourage him to
> redo the Temple as a "kapparah"
>
> Chag Kasher Vesameach
>
> R' Eli

Well, I suppose that if a person isn't put to death for his murder,
then it can't hurt for him to do mitzvot and teshuva as kapara.
Perhaps it won't atone completely without his death, but it can't
hurt. For example, if you know you murdered a certain member of a
certain cause, then perhaps you can do some kapara by instead
supporting that same cause.

Mikha'el Makovi

From: Micha Berger [mailto:micha@aishdas.org] 
Karpas is dipped in "dema'os", so most of us do not recline (as we
don't for maror
>>

I haven't heard that before. Is this your interpretation or are you quoting?

SBA

R' R Wolberg:
> I have a very interesting question for Avodah.  Is a newspaper exempt
> from loshon hara?

The March 17th, 2008 YU Commentator had a few articles that touched on this
question. Here's the link to one:
http://media.www.yucommentator.com/media/storage/paper652/news/200
8/03/17/Ko
lHamevaser/An.Interview.With.Rabbi.Aharon.Lichtenstein-3271725.shtml?reffeat
ure=htmlemailedition

Or,

http://tinyurl.com/6enfhl

KT,
MYG

R' Joel Rich:
> Sorry, I was asking in theory if Sanhedrin were restarted today could
> they vote that the girsa we have (BTW is it ashkenaz or sfard?) is
> incorrect and use a different one (or just have us all use one)

I would think that when the Sanhedrin is reconstituted, B'mheirah B'yameinu,
it - by definition - would be part of the process that defines Halachah. So
if it makes changes, they have as much validity as any other force (Minhag,
Rov, etc.) that may influence the Halachah process.

KT and CKvS,
MYG

>>>Anyone know how often Erev Pesach falls on Shabbos in a Shanah Meuberet
which is a Shemitta year?>>>

Follow this link for an article about why Erev Pesach rarely occurs on
Shabbos (although I don't think it deals with your question directly).

http://www.crcweb.org/Passover%202008/Why%20Erev
%20Pesach%20Rarely%20Occurs%20on%20Shabbos.pdf

or

http://tinyurl.com/629syz


KT and CKvS,
Aryeh

On Thursday, 17. April 2008 15.22:33 Eli Turkel wrote:
> nevertheless Chazal seem to praise Herod for rebuilding the Temple and
> say that it was the most beautiful building.
> After killing the chachamim the remaining ones seemed to encourage him to
> redo the Temple as a "kapparah"

Yes, but I doubt that he would be our rebbe in determining what the makeup of 
the work force should be like.

'Hag Kasher Vesamea'h,
-- 
Arie Folger
http://www.ariefolger.googlepages.com

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:15:54 -0600 T613K@aol.com wrote:
>A malach lacks bechira only because it (he?) knows Hashem so  
>intimately that having any will or desire other than what Hashem 
wants 
>is simply  logically and intellectually impossible for such an 
>intellectually and  spiritually superior being.  You can ask 
>a malach for something that is in  the malach's power to do -- for 
>example, it is in the malach's power to bentsh  you, if and when 
>Hashem wants you to be bentshed.    This is no  more davening to 
the 
>malach than asking your mother for a glass of water is  davening 
to 
>your mother.

Your mother can say no.

Mi manafsach.  Making the request is either implying bechira, which 
is AZ, or making a request from something incapable of being 
effected by your request, which seems like shtus.

OTOH, I say Shalom Aleichem; I just don't understand it,

I would point out that arguably requesting something from your 
mother is not so simple, either.  As far as her bechira is 
concerned, she may decide to give you a glass of water or not.  As 
to whether you actually get that water, that is up to HKB"H, not 
your mother (as per the Chovos Lavovos, at least).

--
Daniel M. Israel
dmi1@cornell.edu

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:31:39 -0600 Simon Montagu
>... in 6384, iy"h.

"Iy"h"?  Say, rather, "chv"sh"!  We would like to go back to 
kiddush haChodesh sooner than that (and may be guaranteed to, 
according to some shitos).

--
Daniel M. Israel
dmi1@cornell.edu

Micha Berger wrote:
> According to Briskers (both US and Israel), qedushas Har haBayis starts at
> the *outside* of the wall. I'm not sure if that's vadai or safeiq (starts
> or "be careful, it might start"). And so (aside from them considering it a
> silly practice) both RYBS and his uncle suggested that someone who insists
> on putting a note into the kotel do so with a pen cap -- not their finger!

Furthermore, since the wall tapers in thickness slightly, and the base 
of the wall is actually significantly below ground level, there are 
those that hold, based on the above shita, that one should not stand too 
close to the wall (within about a foot, IIRC).

-- 
Daniel M. Israel
dmi1@cornell.edu

Till what age (of the son)is this mitzvah? Eg, if the father is 70 and his
son 50, is he still mechuyev to tell him about Yetzias Mitzrayim?

And what in the case of the father an haaretz and the son is a TC?
It doesn't make much sense to do so.

Comments?

SBA 

R' Harry Maryles wrote:
> One might ask, what is the rationale for why the D'Rabbanan
> of Maror negates the D'Oraisa of Matzah? Tosephos in
> Zevachim (78A) explains that it is based on the Halachic
> concept of Bitul Taam. This means that something that
> cannot be tasted is considered non existent.

RHM goes on to mention how much more powerful the taste of maror is, and renders the taste of matza nonexistent by comparison.

But I was under the imprassion that the rationale had something to do with
mixing D'Oraisa and D'Rabanan (which, from a D'Oraisa perspective, is
similar to mixing Chiyuv and Reshus), and that evidence for this can be
drawn from the halacha that one IS yotzay the mitzva of matzah even if he
eats it together with marror, *provided* that the marror is of a d'Oraisa
nature, i.e., together with the Korban Pesach.

Am I totally off-base, or am I citing a different opinion?

Akiva Miller
_____________________________________________________________
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Cantor Wolberg asked:
> Is a newspaper exempt from loshon hara? ... if a prominent
> (or even average) Jewish person were charged with having
> been involved in an adulterous relationship (whether it
> was true or not) and it was put in the newspaper, is the
> newspaper guilty of loshon hara?

It is so obvious to me that there is NO exemption here, that I hesitate to
say so. Instead, I must ask: What is the basis of your question? Why do you
suspect that there might be an exemption here? Lashon Hara exists not only
through the spoken word, but through any communication whatsoever, even by
a simple moving of one's eyes, if it can be interpreted as being a
derogatory comment.

Surely, you must have some reason to think that newspapers might be different, else you would not be asking. What might that reason be?

Akiva Miller
_____________________________________________________________
Burn fat. Finally, a diet plan that works.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc
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On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 11:56 PM, Daniel Israel <dmi1@hushmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:31:39 -0600 Simon Montagu
> >... in 6384, iy"h.
>
> "Iy"h"?  Say, rather, "chv"sh"!  We would like to go back to
> kiddush haChodesh sooner than that (and may be guaranteed to,
> according to some shitos).


I had the same question on the paper that RSZN linked to at
http://tinyurl.com/629syz, but on reflection decided that the use of iy"h
was appropriate after all. Iy"h, we will restore kiddush al pi re`iah long
before 6384, but iy"h we won't.

Be"h, we will be able to discuss the question with Eliyahu Hanavi tomorrow
night.
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"kennethgmiller@juno.com"
<kennethgmiller@juno.com>
wrote:	   R' Harry Maryles wrote:
> One might ask, what is the rationale for why the D'Rabbanan
> of Maror negates the D'Oraisa of Matzah? Tosephos in
> Zevachim (78A) explains that it is based on the Halachic
> concept of Bitul Taam. This means that something that
> cannot be tasted is considered non existent.

RHM goes on to mention how much more powerful the taste of maror is, and renders the taste of matza nonexistent by comparison.

But I was under the imprassion that the rationale had something to do with
mixing D'Oraisa and D'Rabanan (which, from a D'Oraisa perspective, is
similar to mixing Chiyuv and Reshus), and that evidence for this can be
drawn from the halacha that one IS yotzay the mitzva of matzah even if he
eats it together with marror, *provided* that the marror is of a d'Oraisa
nature, i.e., together with the Korban Pesach.	
   
  Am I totally off-base, or am I citing a different opinion?

  -----------------------------------------
   
  
You are not off base and that is basically the approach if the Meiri that I
mentioned - whose understanding is the rationale is used for both R. Shlomo
HaKohen's Kula and RYBS's rejection of that Kula.
   
  The Meiri holds that we are required to demonstrate our reverence for the
  Mitzvah by not allowing its taste to become affected by anything of
  lesser Halachic importance. That relates to the hierarchy of Mitzvos
  D'Oraisos to D'Rabbanans, which RYBS takes a step further. A D'Rabbanan
  of lesser importance is a Reshus compared to a D'Oraisa. Thus Maror
  D'Rabbanan is a Reshus that is Me'akev the D'Oriasa of Matzah.
   
  RYBS adds that the D'Rabbanan of eating Matzah with Heseibah (if one has
  already eaten Matzah w/o Heseibah) is a Reshus compared to the greater
  level D'Rabbanan of eating Maror which has not yet been fulfilled at all
  (if one skips it and goes straight to Korech as suggested by R'Sholmo
  HaKohen). Eating Matzah a second time  (B'Heseibah) is therefore MeAkev
  the Ikkar Din of Achilas Maror when eaten together at Korech.
   
  HM


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On Fri, April 18, 2008 12:41 am, SBA wrote:
: Till what age (of the son)is this mitzvah? Eg, if the father is 70 and
: his son 50, is he still mechuyev to tell him about Yetzias Mitzrayim?

: And what in the case of the father an haaretz and the son is a TC?
: It doesn't make much sense to do so.

Isn't it a gezeiras hakasuv, and therefore beyond all this guesswork
about the point?

But perhaps the purpose is to hand it one generation to the next, and
it has to do with the shalsheles, not with who should be teaching who
in terms of personal merit. That would explain the "afilu kulanu
chakhamim..." aspect.


I was wondering about this chiyuv, once your question pushed me to the
gezeiras hakasuv idea. Why is there no haqpadah to go to your father's
home for Pesach? Isn't it the only way he can fulfil his chiyuv?
What's the matir for saying it's only if they are already at the table
rather than obligating us to go to his table?

SheTir'u baTov!
-micha

-- 
Micha Berger             "Man wants to achieve greatness overnight,
micha@aishdas.org        and he wants to sleep well that night too."
http://www.aishdas.org     - Rav Yosef Yozel Horwitz, Alter of Novarodok
Fax: (270) 514-1507

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:51:30 +0300
"Danny Schoemann" <doniels@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Our Minhag has always been not to 'lean to the left' when eating Karpas.
> > But learning KSA (119:3)this morning, I see that it rules that one
> > should do so.
> >
> > The MB doesn't mention it and I have yet to find any tana demesaye.
> >
> > Can anyone add some light?
> 
> The Sefer Sha'arei Yemei HePessach (on pg 146) says:
> - it's a machlokes of minhogim
> - the Birkey Yosef (473:14) says that per Kabala one shouldn't.
> - the popular minhag is not to lean
> - somebody w/o a minhag should not lean.

<Quote>

While eating the karpas one should recline (Siddur of Rav Yaakov Emden,
Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 119:3, Abudraham).  Some, however, say not to
recline (Shibolei Haleket, contemporary Haggados).  The reason to
recline is obvious: The eating of karpas is meant to symbolize freedom,
and reason indicates that we should therefore recline.  Nevertheless,
it is not standard practice.

</Quote>

-- Rav David Feinstein, Kol Dodi Haggadad, 9:8

Hag Kasher V'Sameah,

Yitzhak
--
Bein Din Ledin - bdl.freehostia.com
An advanced discussion of Hoshen Mishpat



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