Avodah Mailing List

Volume 27: Number 101

Sun, 18 Apr 2010

• 1. Re: Sobering Thoughts as Israel's Independence Day Approaches (Daniel Bukingolts)
• 2. yom haatzmaut liturgy (saul newman)
• 3. Re: Who First Said It? 7 - Mourning during Sefirah (Richard Wolpoe)
• 4. Re: Lo Plug (Richard Wolpoe)
• 5. Re: chametz after pesach (Moshe Y. Gluck)
• 6. Shemini and Tazria-Metzora-- from R. Yisrael Salanter (Prof. Levine)
• 7. Re: Sobering Thoughts as Israel's Independence Day Approaches (Zev Sero)
• 8. Re: Sobering Thoughts as Israel's Independence Day Approaches (Ben Waxman)
• 9. dal dal dal (Saul.Z.New...@kp.org)
• 10. Re: dal dal dal (Zev Sero)
• 11. Re: dal dal dal (rabbirichwol...@gmail.com)
• 12. Israel ? A Challenge (Yitzchok Levine)
• 13. Re: Who First Said It? 7 - Mourning during Sefirah (Saul Mashbaum)

...What a tragedy if this State, either by
delusion or folly, were to prolong the Galus and provoke new and
terrible catastrophes! May Hashem prevent this from happening.
------


struggling with is if the state of Israel could possibly be prolonging the
geulah.... why all the seemingly huge miracles to create and keep its
existence? How do you explain 48 war? 67? Do you just write it off by
saying... in the path a person wants to go Hashem guides him? (or whatever
the phrase is...)




On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Yitzchok Levine
<Larry.Lev...@stevens.edu>wrote:

>  Israel's Independence will be celebrated on 4/19.
>
> Below are some thoughts regarding the founding of the Jewish State from A
> Unique Perspective: The Essays of Rav Dr. Joseph Breuer.
>
> Page 358
>
> Anyone who is imbued with the eternal truth and validity of
> God?s Torah will have to be aware that a state on God?s holy soil
> will only be able to endure if the conditions that God has set down
> for a Jewish state on His holy soil are met. These conditions apply
> to the Jewish entity and to the life of every individual who declares
> himself a member of God?s People.
>
> Every word in our Torah is ironclad testimony to these facts.
>
> Page 359
>
> We have expressed it repeatedly in all clarity and intensity: This
> state will have a future only if, and as long as, it is organized as a
> Jewish state, i.e., a state of God, rising on sacred soil. It will be a
> state of God if it proclaims the Torah as the fundamental law of its
> constitution and propagates its practical realization in the life of our
> people.
>
> Page 365
>
> There must live in us this unshakeable conviction: This State
> will last only if it will rise as God?s State on God-holy soil. This
> alone will prevent it from suffering the fate of the previous Jewish
> States. Will this State live up to this condition? It is still a question,
> a source of terrible worry. We wished it were no longer a question!
> As certain as it is that this State, the mere fact of its formation,
> does not mean that the Ge?ulah has arrived, just as potent is its
> ability ?as perhaps never before in our Galus-history?to hasten
> the coming of the Ge?ulah. What a tragedy if this State, either by
> delusion or folly, were to prolong the Galus and provoke new and
> terrible catastrophes! May Hashem prevent this from happening.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Avodah mailing list
> Avo...@lists.aishdas.org
> http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org
>
>


-- 
Daniel Bukingolts
847-877-9052
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http://menachemmendel.net/blog/2010/04/15/liturgical-response
s-to-yom-ha-atzmaut/

a selection of? past? efforts? 
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In Today's class on Bar Lev's sefer "y'did Nefesh" the Teacher R Chayyim -
opened his lesson as follows

RC:   "Well it's mamash pashut that all 49 days of s'fira are one long chol
> hamoed"
>
> RRW:  Wait a minute -  while these DOES explains the ARI's minhag, it does
> not seem so Pashut at all. Many people are disputing  me on the internet on
> this ver same topic
>
> RC:  [after disaparging the internet and its debates] Start with Humash
>
> RRW: Well  I could not find my suspected source - namely the Ramban on
> Humash though indeed the Tur et al. mention the drash of sheva shabbassos
> but as I mentioned no one equates that to Chol Hamoed mamash
>
> RC:  well maybe you should csee a Bar-ilan CD I"m sure it's there somewhere
>
> RRW: Well, I'm pretty convinced I save this idea and that I did NOT make it
> up so maybe it is out there somewhere
>

Anyone have a reference that equates or makes a comparison between the 49
days of S'fira and Chol Hamoed?

Gut Voch

-- 
Shalom uVRacha
RabbiRichWol...@Gmail.com
see: http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nishma-Minhag/
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On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote:

>
> RJR rejoined:
> : imho this is a specific case of a more general question - is the
> : halachic process reproducible?
>
> To which I answered that I think it isn't. After all, which mistakes
> become gezeiros involve the history and what mistakes were being made --
> not only the process.
>
>
> Tir'u baTov!
> -Micha
>
>
Crossing threads
I think that Sefira originally consisted of 3 issues

   1. Nissuin
   2. Tispoeres
   3. Some limitation on m'lcahah

[regardless of the orginating trigger]
and that adding humros is an error

UNLESS some new aveilus was added for new, subsequent reasons to the
original minhag - EG the Crusades

Otherwise these Humros are as questionable as adding humros corn syrup and
peanut oil to Qitniyyos on Passover.

IOW w/o additional triggers, it is simply revisionistic to add to the
orginal minhag as originally formulated.

NB: I am not addressing the span of time aspect, EG 33 vs. 48.

-- 
Shalom uVRacha
RabbiRichWol...@Gmail.com
see: http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nishma-Minhag/
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R' Eli Turkel:
> R Elyashiv holds that any sale by a nonreligious Jew even though no
> chametz is sold over Pesach is not valid as the sale is viewed as some
> formality and he doesnt really mean it.

Never understood this. If the sale is enforceable in Beis Din and secular
court, who cares what the person thinks? IOW, if there's a shtar that's
valid, then the courts wouldn't assume that Daas Makneh is an issue.

KT,
MYG

The message below was recently sent to me. Rabbi Dr. David Berger 
author of "The Rebbe, the Messiah and the Scandal of Orthodox 
Indifference" once pointed out to me that the classic source for the 
statement about worrying more about what comes out of our mouths than 
what goes into them is Matthew 15:17-20 and Mark 7:18-23. YL

From: Yavneh Minyan of Flatbush News:April 16, 2010
DEVAR TORAH
By Rabbi Moshe Sokol, Ph.D.

Why does parashat Tazria immediately follow parashat Shmini?

Rav Yisrael Salanter, famed founder of the mussar movement, is
reported to have asked the question this way.

Parashat Shmini includes the laws of kashrut. Parashat Tazria
includes the laws of tzara'at, which Chazal teach is the consequence
of speaking lashon ha-ra.

Thus, parashat Shmini teaches us what is forbidden to put into our
mouths, and parashat Tazria teaches us what is forbidden to leave our mouths.

I might add that the laws of tzara'at extend over two parashiyot,
Tazria and Metzora, while the laws of kashrut extend over only one.

Perhaps that is a hint about the relative importance of each category
of halakha. While both are absolutely crucial and the word of G-d,
perhaps we should be worrying a bit more about what we say than what we eat.

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Daniel Bukingolts wrote:

> As someone who is strongly in the not tzioni camp, one thing I have been 
> struggling with is if the state of Israel could possibly be prolonging 
> the geulah.... why all the seemingly huge miracles to create and keep 
> its existence? How do you explain 48 war? 67? Do you just write it off 
> by saying... in the path a person wants to go Hashem guides him? (or 
> whatever the phrase is...)

In both cases any other result would have caused a massacre r"l worse
than Tach Vetat, and a massive chilul Hashem ("lama yomru vagoyim ayeh
elokeihem").  HKBH had "no choice" keveyachol but to give the Jews a
victory.  The '67 victory, though, was more than that; not only were
the Jews saved by open miracles, but "venahafoch hu"; I think it can
only be seen as a call to teshuva ("lu chachmu yaskilu zot") which
would have led to moshiach coming.  

-- 
Zev Sero                      The trouble with socialism is that you
z...@sero.name                 eventually run out of other people?s money
                                                     - Margaret Thatcher

Did Rav Breuer have any thoughts on how to bring about this change?

Ben
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Yitzchok Levine 

  Israel's Independence will be celebrated on 4/19. 

  Below are some thoughts regarding the founding of the Jewish State from A Unique Perspective: The Essays of Rav Dr. Joseph Breuer.

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some korbanot  are oleh v'yored . many are not.   anyone with sources that 
address the distinction as to why some fall in one group or the other.

it seems that the non-yored nature of the other korbanot  will be 
problematic for  the dal. 
1] what would  one  do  --in oleh vyored -- if  he  couldnt afford  a 
korban of  grain, the lowest delineated option?

2]  eg  todah  ,  does the person , to express gratitude go  door-to-door 
to raise  funds for animals + 40 loaves?
[ that  would seem to be a bit inappropriate--making  a seudas hoda'ah on 
someone else's dime...]

and  further  the  asham, where he  stole  eg  a pikadon,  the dal  has 
not only a yored component, but  has to pay back the principal  too.....

3] you would think that korban pesach , with karet attatched,  might 
engender a dalut  option-- though a  goat is cheaper to begin with, and a 
grain option
would seem to be out-of-line [  the dal would korech matza ,maror,and more 
matza?]

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Saul.Z.New...@kp.org wrote:
> 3] you would think that korban pesach , with karet attatched,  might 
>  engender a dalut  option-- though a  goat is cheaper to begin with, and 
> a grain option
> would seem to be out-of-line [  the dal would korech matza ,maror,and 
> more matza?]

Why not?  That's what we do! 

Saul.Z.New...@kp.org wrote:
> 3] you would think that korban pesach , with karet attatched,  might 
>  engender a dalut  option-- though a  goat is cheaper to begin with

A dalut option would be like a heter to drink milk for the 4 kosot.
It would just give people an excuse not to help the dalim enjoy a proper
yomtov with meat and wine and matzot and whatever else they need.

-- 
Zev Sero                      The trouble with socialism is that you
z...@sero.name                 eventually run out of other people?s money

Re: qorban pesach a dal can simply join a chabura with an ashir and eat
the bare minimum

So there is no need for a special qorban etc. since a minimum chabura
is 30.

On a more mega scale, the torah's economics of nossar and maaser sheini
MS plus chagigah etc. Almost forces inviting people to share

EG re: MS, one eats 9% of their own produce furing less than 9% of the
year - viz. The regalim which have other obligations EG Chagigah Thus,
sharing is a natural consequence.

Under normal to ideal conditions, Dallim would have been weel-cared for
in Y'rushalayim during the r'galim when the bayyis stood

AFA Those dallim who failed to make aliyas regel during the bayyis or
during post-hurban, the Torah is more sketchy.

KT 
RRW
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Below are some selections from Rav Dr. Joseph 
Breuer's Essay Israel ? A Challenge that appeared 
in the Mitteilungen, Vol. 24, December 
1962/January 1963 and is reproduced in A Unique 
Perspective: The Essays of Rav Breuer, 1914 -1973 
recently published by Feldheim.

A trip to Israel has become routine in our time. The amazing
technological progress in the speed of air travel has helped in the
enormous rise of volume of travelers bound for Israel. The Holy
Land has become a focal attraction for the Diaspora. We would
rather not analyze whether it is longing for the ancestral land which
motivates the travelers? plan ? a longing which all but consumed
the heart of a Yehudah Halevi. Undoubtedly, the existence of a
Jewish state in the Holy Land, recognized by a majority of the
world?s nations, draws many thousands into its orbit, who then
return home warmed by the glow of the numerous achievements
which the State has accomplished in the brief period of its existence.

As for us Torah-true Jews, we must be permeated by the following
thoughts:

 From the beginning the Jewish people was assured possession
of Eretz Yisrael only as God?s nation. Every page of the Torah
proclaims this irrevocable truth. To deny it would mean a denial of
God?s Torah itself. Only he who no longer recognizes the truth of
the Divine creative pronouncement of ?I shall take you as My
people? ?with which God called our people into existence?will
fail to grasp the absolute interdependence between the ?I shall
bring you to the Land? (Shemos 6:8) and the emergence of the
Jewish people as God?s nation. The disruption of the sole tie that
bound this nation to its land inevitably sealed the fate of nation and
land.

Similarly, the future of this land is intimately and forever tied to
the future of this nation. Redemption of the Jewish people also
means redemption of the Jewish land. Thus, a true ingathering of
our people into its land is not possible without our return to God
and His life-shaping proximity. For the Land, too, longs for the
return of God?s Shechinah.

<snip>

For God guided His people, which His creative Will awakened
to life and which can exist only through Him, and implanted it ?in
the Mountain of His heritage, in the site of His presence on earth,
in the Sanctuary founded by God?s hands? (Shemos 15:17). Through
God?s nation the Divinely sanctified soil was to be transformed into
one singular Mount of Sanctity, looming high above a humanity
estranged from God, as a symbol of the Divine claim of inheritance
to His realm of earth and mankind. Who can then measure the
gloom of the Prophet?s mourning (Yirmeyahu 2:7): ?. . . but you
came and desecrated My land and turned My heritage into abomination?!

Have we who tread upon the soil of our homeland still an ear
for this stirring plaint? Do we feel shame for our brethren who
respond with derisive laughter to this heart-rending pain; who feel
no compunction to demonstrate to a world, which is familiar with
the Book of the Prophets, how the very descendants of this people
ridicule their own leaders?

<snip>

Let us face it: The Jewish State in its present form is far from
being a State of God. This realization is the basis for the desperate
struggle of Torah Jewry in Israel for the salvation of Torah in Israel.
Are not the establishment of the State and the resurrection of the
land from the decay of millennia Divine challenges to our people?
Are you ready for your ultimate redemption? That is why every
truly Jewish man or woman must tremble for the future of the State,
for the future of our land.

Yet we need not tremble for the future of God?s Torah. Our
anxiety is directed to our people and its God-willed destiny. Despite
the fateful significance of the tasks confronting Torah-true
Jewry in the Holy Land, it would be of even greater fateful consequence
were we to underestimate the importance of strengthening
Torah-true Jewry in the Golah.

We applaud him who chooses to make his permanent domicile
in Israel, in order to support and strengthen the cause of Torah in
the Holy Land. However, in view of the regrettable state of affairs,
a visitor to Israel will be burdened by the experiences which may
be expected in the Golah but which are unbearable in the Holy
Land.

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RRWolpoe:

EG For A we are chosheish for a da'as yachid to omit brachos on s'fira
if we fail only once! This is very unusual because afaik ONLY the BeHag
holds it's one long Mitzah! Yet we are chocheish for a da'as yachid.

>>

Another example:

IN YD 286:15, the Mechaber says "a house (ie, an entrance SM)  without a
door is obligated in the mitzva of mezuza, and there is someone who says it
is exempt". The dissenting opinion cited is that of the Rambam, who disputes
the opinion of the other Rishonim on this point, and is AFAIK a da'at
yachid. The Shach there (sk 25) says that one does not make a bracha when
affixing a mezuza to an entrance without a door, thus providing another
example when we do not make a bracha on a mitzva because we are chocheish
for a da'at yachid

See
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9147&;st=&pgnum=225


Saul Mashbaum
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