Avodah Mailing List

Volume 28: Number 181

Tue, 06 Sep 2011

• 1. Choosing a Frum Doctor (Richard Wolberg)
• 2. Re: lecha dodi-eli tzion (kennethgmil...@juno.com)
• 3. Re: Shabbos King (D&E-H Bannett)
• 4. giving a shiur to women (Eli Turkel)
• 5. Levi Gets Two Aliyos! (Prof. Levine)
• 6. Re: Levi Gets Two Aliyos! (Dorron Katzin)
• 7. Re: Levi Gets Two Aliyos! (Lisa Liel)
• 8. Re: Levi Gets Two Aliyos! (Micha Berger)
• 9. Re: Levi Gets Two Aliyos! (Harry Maryles)
• 10. How I got two Aliyos today (Prof. Levine)
• 11. Baal Keriah (Micha Berger)
• 12. Is One Allowed to Wear Eyeglasses on Shabbos? (Prof. Levine)
• 13. Re: How I got two Aliyos today (T6...@aol.com)
• 14. Phantom Chazal (kennethgmil...@juno.com)
• 15. Re: Phantom Chazal (Micha Berger)
• 16. Even More on How I got two Aliyos Today (Prof. Levine)
• 17. Re: Phantom Chazal (kennethgmil...@juno.com)
• 18. Re: Happiness and Wealth (Micha Berger)
• 19. yosef//selling (Harvey Benton)

Regarding what the Igros Moshe states with respect to choosing the kofer over the frum doctor, assuming of course, the kofer is superior.
What if there are two surgeons with the same scenario and everyone knows the inferior frum surgeon personally prays specifically before
every operation with extreme kavana and not only is he, shomer mitzvos but he is a boki shas, whereas the exceptionally competent surgeon
is an apikorus? How does this square with the efficacy of tefilla and merit, etc?

The best article I have found on this topic appeared in Mail-Jewish 25:64,
in January 1997, written by Baruch J. Schwartz. He offers several arguments
in favor of this practice. I found them very convincing, such as our use of
this tune for "bnei veischa kevatechilah" even on Yom Tov itself, and so
kal vachomer it should not be forbidden on Shabbos.

You can read it in full simply by clicking on:
http://ottmall.com/mj_ht_arch/v25/mj_v25i64.html

Akiva Miller

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The fact that malka with alef in Aramaic and malka with hei 
in Hebrew both mean king is backed up by the Rambam who 
writes Shabbat ha-melekh with neither alef nor hei.  All 
agree. This in no way affects the present custom of saying 
Shabbat Shalom when parting from others. No medical 
sex-changing operation was required.

David 

<<The Bais Ovi does caution that this liberty can only be taken for a
Torah lecture, but for any non torah lectures, the Halacha should be
strictly adhered to.>>

Does this mean that a man cant give a university lecture to women without a
mechitza?
I dont know for sure what is done in the various charedi university programs
but I doubt this is true

In any case RYBS gave lectures to women without a mechitza

-- 
Eli Turkel
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I am a Levi.

This morning in shul I was given two Aliyos. How is this possible?

For the record, there was  a Kohein present.

YL

Did you receive Levi and either Petihah, Hagbah, or Glilah?  Or was everyone
in the minyan either a Kohen or a Levi?

DK


On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 07:50, Prof. Levine <llev...@stevens.edu> wrote:

> I am a Levi.
>
> This morning in shul I was given two Aliyos. How is this possible?
>
> For the record, there was  a Kohein present.
>
> YL
>
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You got called up for Levi, but you were doing the Haftara, so you got 
called up for Maftir as well.

On 9/5/2011 7:50 AM, Prof. Levine wrote:
> I am a Levi.
>
> This morning in shul I was given two Aliyos. How is this possible?
>
> For the record, there was a Kohein present.
>
> YL
>
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On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 11:25:45AM -0500, Lisa Liel wrote:
> On 9/5/2011 7:50 AM, Prof. Levine wrote:
>> I am a Levi.
>> This morning in shul I was given two Aliyos. How is this possible?

> You got called up for Levi, but you were doing the Haftara, so you got  
> called up for Maftir as well.

There is no haftarah for Mon, even when it's Labor Day.

Unless "this morning" was meant as "on a the morning in question".

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

I'm not too good at riddles but...
?
Dr. Levine?was called up?in the Kohein slot by the Gabai thinking there was
no Kohein present. The Kohein then?identified himslef as such and took his
place.?Dr. Levine then got called up as a Levi.
?
HM

Want Emes and Emunah in your life? 

Try this: http://haemtza.blogspot.com/

--- On Mon, 9/5/11, Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote:


From: Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org>
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Levi Gets Two Aliyos!
To: avo...@lists.aishdas.org
Date: Monday, September 5, 2011, 2:27 PM


On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 11:25:45AM -0500, Lisa Liel wrote:
> On 9/5/2011 7:50 AM, Prof. Levine wrote:
>> I am a Levi.
>> This morning in shul I was given two Aliyos. How is this possible?

> You got called up for Levi, but you were doing the Haftara, so you got? 
> called up for Maftir as well.

There is no haftarah for Mon, even when it's Labor Day.

Unless "this morning" was meant as "on a the morning in question".

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
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I have received a lot of response to my earlier email in which I wrote

>>I am a Levi.
>>
>>This morning in shul I was given two Aliyos. How is this possible?
>>
>>For the record, there was a Kohein present.

These included

You were present at two different minyanim.

Perhaps he was a Kohein who had not yet reached the age of a Bar-Mitzvah.

You stayed around for the second minyan and you were the only Levi? 
There was a pesul in the Torah requiring another bracha for the new Torah?

I can only assume that there were no bona fide Yisraels extant.

The gabbai made as mistake.

If the baal koreh makes a serious mistake, such as omitting a word or 
reading by heart, and it's not noticed til after the concluding 
bracha, i would guess that the aliya would be repeated.

mmmmmmmm you got me!

Does the first person to get the right answer receive a prize? :)


----------
Here is what actually happened.

I davened at only one minyan this morning and went home shortly after 
it concluded.

The Baal Kriah, who is a Kohein, was called up, and he leined from 
last week's parsha, Shoftim!  (BTW, I believe that the correct term 
is Baal Kriah and not Baal Korei as some wrote me.)

Then I was called up, made a bracha, and he continued to lein from 
Shoftim until someone stopped him and made him aware that he was 
leining the wrong parsha.  (I did not notice this!)  The sefer Torah 
was rolled to this week's parsha, I was told to make another bracha, 
and then the Baal Kriah leined the first two Aliyos, the portions for 
Kohein and Levi, for me!  After this a Yisroel was called up for the 
third aliya.


Yitzchok Levine 
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On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 05:10:39PM -0400, Prof. Levine wrote:
>                          (BTW, I believe that the correct term is Baal 
> Kriah and not Baal Korei as some wrote me.)

The SA uses "qorei" (reader).

Alternatively, one can say "baal qeriah", the master at reading.

Since qorei refers to a person, a baal qorei would be something just
legalized in NY (assuming one of the couple is a reader), and not at
all what is normally under discussion.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Despair is the worst of ailments. No worries
mi...@aishdas.org        are justified except: "Why am I so worried?"
http://www.aishdas.org                         - Rav Yisrael Salanter
Fax: (270) 514-1507

 From http://tinyurl.com/3jcuvum

In order to be permissibly worn outside on Shabbos, an item must be 
classified as a garment or an ornament. Ornaments, however, are 
sometimes rabbinically forbidden due to the concern you might take it 
off to show someone or that it might fall off and you will lift and 
carry it. Do eyeglasses fall in either of these categories?

The Rema (Orach Chaim 301:14), quoting the Beis Yosef, forbids 
wearing an ornamental glasses case because the glasses inside the 
case are not part of the ornament. This ruling raises the question 
why the wearing of glasses was not addressed. Is this because it is 
obviously allowed as a garment or ornament, or forbidden as a 
utensil? The Chayei Adam (56:3) forbids "wearing glasses on the nose" 
because they may fall and you may carry them. Clearly, he considers 
them to be an ornament subject to that consideration.

See the above URL for more on this issue.
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In a message dated 9/5/2011, llev...@stevens.edu writes:

>>  (BTW, I believe that the correct term is Baal Kriah and not Baal Korei 
as some  wrote me.) <<



>>>>>
 
 
There are people who consider "baal kriah" to be a pretentious,  because 
unnecessary, over-correction of a term that is not mistaken in the first  
place and does not need to be corrected.  "Baal kriah" may be the correct  
Hebrew term, but "baal korei" is perfectly correct and acceptable  in Yiddish and 
in International Frumspeak, and possibly even in  Hebrew.  

--Toby Katz
================




_____________________



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I was perusing Pirkei Avos a few days ago, and found the following line: "Ain l'cha ben chorin ela mi she'osek..." -- Do you know how it ends?

Think about it before you read further. How does that line end? "There is no free person except one who is involved with..."

By my memory, it ends with "mi she'osek baTorah", "one who is involved with
Torah". But in Pirkei Avos 6:2 -- okay, I know that's not really Pirkei
Avos, but you know what I mean -- it ends differently: "mi she'osek
b'salmud Torah" - "one who is involved with learning Torah". The difference
is quite significant to me. One refers to Torah in general, which could
include "merely" observing the mitzvos, while the other refers to one
specific observance, namely Torah Study.

I looked in several siddurim and mishnayos, and they all include the word "talmud". I tried googling the phrase
+"ela mi she'osek"
and got many claims (such as from Yeshivat Har Etzion's www.vbm-torah.org/pesach
/cherut.htm) that "ela mi she-osek ba-Torah" is indeed from Avos 6:2,
although most sites simply quote the phrase with no attribution. Notably, I
didn't see anyone include the extra word.

What does the chevra think? Are there some editions of the siddur or of the
mishna/braisa which omit this extra word? Or are so many of us victims of
remembering a Chazal that doesn't exist?

Akiva Miller

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On Tue, Sep 06, 2011 at 04:28:00AM +0000, kennethgmil...@juno.com wrote:
: and got many claims (such as from Yeshivat Har Etzion's
: www.vbm-torah.org/pesach/cherut.htm) that "ela mi she-osek ba-Torah"
:is indeed from Avos 6:2, although most sites simply quote the phrase
:with no attribution. Notably, I didn't see anyone include the extra word.

Searching in Hebrew fills that lacuna.

In any case, searching the BI CD, the hits for "... oseiq baTorah" are
all 19th and 20th cent CE: Benei Yisaschar (Nisan, maamar 4 - tiyul
Pardeis, derush 4), Sefar Emes (Behar, Shavuos), Meshaneh Halakhos
(17:184). The MH does give Avos 6:2 as the mar'eh maqom.

Searching he.wikisource.org only added Oros haTeshuvah (sikum to #5
<http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%90%D
7%95%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%91%D7%94_%D7%94>
or <http://bit.ly/oaDOBb>) to that list.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Every second is a totally new world,
mi...@aishdas.org        and no moment is like any other.
http://www.aishdas.org           - Rabbi Chaim Vital
Fax: (270) 514-1507

The following was sent to me by Reb Yisroel Weingarten.

They were wrong.  See Aruch Hashulchan 135 5 on Mon. & Thurs. There 
is no requirement to lein the parsha of the week and whatever was read is good.

Yitzchok Levine 
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I had meant to add this as the last line to my recent post:

Or is it a real Chazal which appears somewhere *other* than Avos 6:2?

Akiva Miller

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On Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 06:36:43PM -0400, Yoni Leibowitz wrote:
: Does anyone know the location of the Medrish Tanchuma that teaches the
: following: The letters of the word ashir stand for einayim, shinayim,
: yadayim, and raglayim....

Searching the BI Responsa Project for "ashir einayim" within 20 words
at <http://www.responsa.co.il/default.aspx> doesn't find a hit in the
Tanchuma. The two hits are Otzer Midrashim (Eizenstein) Ma'asiyos,
and Mirkeves haMishnah of R Yosef b Moshe al-Ashqar on Avos 4.

(RYbMAA's father, R' Moshe b Yitzchaq al-Ashqar, was in Tzedas for the
semichah restoration controversy. He started out being pro, but in the
end was against. He has a shu"t that is interesting also as a reflection
of what kinds of issues faced goreshei Sepharad, as he was among those
who fled the Xian conquest of Tunisia.)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             A cheerful disposition is an inestimable treasure.
mi...@aishdas.org        It preserves health, promotes convalescence,
http://www.aishdas.org   and helps us cope with adversity.
Fax: (270) 514-1507         - R' SR Hirsch, "From the Wisdom of Mishlei"

1. was joseph under the obligation to forgive his brothers (he was not jewish (and or not one of the avos, so did he have to keep the torah at all?)
2. did he and or should he have taken nekama upon them?
3. why did he (mistama] not take nekama on them? 
for his father's sake? 
for yiras shamayim?
4. if the bnei yaakov were not mechuyav the mitzvot, why go ask a shaila, and have the bas kol? answer to listen to the roman's decree??
[why not just say, they were not jewish at the time, and there for not
mechuyav on the mitzvah of death for stealing and selling someone
(especially a brother??)
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