Avodah Mailing List

Volume 29: Number 10

Tue, 24 Jan 2012

• 1. Re: karas hatov? required?? (kennethgmil...@juno.com)
• 2. The Requirement of Mechitza During Prayer and Other Events (Prof. Levine)
• 3. RMF on separtaion of sexes (Eli Turkel)
• 4. Mechitzah outside of a shul (rebshr...@aol.com)
• 5. Re: inward bound (kennethgmil...@juno.com)
• 6. Rashei Teivot (Liron Kopinsky)
• 7. Costa Concordia and halachah (Eli Turkel)
• 8. Costa Concordia and Halacha (M Cohen)
• 9. Re: animals and bechira?? (David Riceman)
• 10. Re: animals and bechira?? (Lisa Liel)
• 11. Re: RMF on separtaion of sexes (Harry Maryles)
• 12. Re: The Requirement of Mechitza During Prayer and Other Events (Micha Berger)
• 13. Re: Rashei Teivot (Gershon Dubin)
• 14. Re: Rashei Teivot (Lisa Liel)
• 15. Mahal and Giglgulim (Joel C. Salomon)
• 16. Re: karas hatov? required?? (Lisa Liel)
• 17. Re: RMF on separtaion of sexes (Zev Sero)
• 18. Fasting on a Yahrtzeit (Prof. Levine)
• 19. Re: animals and bechira?? (Lisa Liel)

R' Harvey Benton asked:

> if one takes money/services (garbage collection, etc), from a 
> medina, is one required to have hakaras hatov??

I don't understand the question. Why would the hakaras hatov for this be
any less than the hakaras hatov due to a shopkeeper from whom one purchases
his milk and bread?

Regarding RHB's specific examples:

I would argue that I must have even more hakaras hatov about the garbage
collection than to the milkman, because I am paying the milkman for the
milk (leading one to incorrectly think that he is not due any gratitude
beyond his cash payment), whereas the government collects the trash from
all equally, without regard to how much taxes they've paid.

And if one actually takes money from the government, such as in the form of
welfare, isn't that an even stronger argument? I really don't understand
the question.

Akiva Miller


____________________________________________________________
57 Year Old Looks 27
Local Woman Reveals Wrinkle Secret That Has Doctors Angry.
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At 03:27 AM 1/23/2012, Liron Kopinsky wrote:

> > Halacha requires placing a Mechitza (separation) between men and women in
> > the synagogue;
> >
>
>I have heard that this is a halacha which is dependent on the shul, and not
>on the situation (people davening), and as such, there is no obligation to
>create a mechitza when creating an impromptu minyan outside of a shul.
>
>Does anyone know what the source is for this?

This question I cannot answer.   However, a Flatbush rov sent me the 
following regarding requiring a mechitza at social gatherings.

"I don't know where they're getting their information from.  R. Moshe 
in IGM OC Part I siman 41 writes that at social gatherings he thinks 
that it is not necessary to have a mechitza."

Another rov pointed out the there was mixed seating at the weddings 
of Reb Moshe's children. He also wrote,  "As I have often mentioned, 
my father was present, before the war, at the wedding of the daughter 
of the Dvar Avraham, the Kovner Rov.  All the g'dolei Lita were 
there, and all of them sat with their wives."

"Did the halacha change?"

Given this, I sent an email to Rabbi Eli Mansour, who posts the 
material at http://www.dailyhalacha.com/ , pointing out what Reb 
Moshe wrote and asking for clarification.  I have not received a response.


Yitzchok Levine 
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<> See, for example, the discussion of The Requirement of Mechitza During
> Prayer and Other Events at <http://tinyurl.com/7fumbm9> where it says
> "Rabbi Feinstein notes that if Mechitzot are required to separate between
> men and women at the solemn occasion of a funeral, then we should all the
> more so require Mechitzot at more festive social gatherings. "

How did RMF allow mixed seating at his daughter's wedding to Rav Tendler?

-- 
Eli Turkel
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Since a shul is considered a Mikdash M'at, since in the Beit hamikdash 
a balcony was erected to separate men and women, we build a separation 
for men and women in our shuls.    Outside of our shuls, however, when 
there is no intention of creating a Kavuah place of dovening, a 
mechitzah is preferrable but may not be absolutely required.   In my 
NCSY days while traveling with teens, this issue came up numerous 
times.   Though I do not rememjber a written source, I know that Rav 
Moshe was asked what to do, and he instructed us that as long as the 
girls were in the back, though dovening with us, we could hold our 
Minyan.   Admittedly, this Heter might have been allowed because of 
Kiruv.   Does anyone remember anything further about Rav Moshe's P'sak 
for us.

Stu Grant

R' Harvey Benton asked:

> aside from katyushka rockets being fired at israel, we probably
> have more deaths from israeli's driving while texting, speeding,
> smoking, etc, 
>
> what responsiblility do we have to have to address these problems
> (if at all??)

Don't drive while texting, and to the extent that you're able, discourage others from doing so.
Don't speed when driving, and to the extent that you're able, discourage others from doing so.
Don't smoke, and to the extent that you're able, discourage others from doing so.

Akiva Miller

____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
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Does anyone know what the Rashei Teivot  ?????"? (Reish Vav Mem Yud Yud
Mem) stand for? Rashi, Rosh Hashana 14a DH Eika Beinayu.

Thanks,

-- 
Liron Kopinsky
liron.kopin...@gmail.com
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 There are numerous teshuvot that discuss the priorities in cases of triage
and mass terror attacks.
I have never seen a posek use the mishna in Horiyot in these cases. The
normal psak is that one begins to save the person with the greatest chance
of surviving for a long time (hayei olam).
Once one begins saving someone then one cannot stop in the middle for
another person.
I have seen from Rav Zilbestein that perhaps one should first save a person
that all of Israel needs (in the gemara like Yoav).

In theory one need not put ones life in danger to save someone else. I
suspect (dont have anything immediate) that if ones job includes saving
other people than this doesnt apply.
Think of a lifesaver at a beach who refuses to save someone because there
are high waves. Of course one has to act with common sense. Even a life
saver doesnt jump in when the chances of drowning are greater than the
chances of saving the other person.

kol tuv

-- 
Eli Turkel
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Re: prioritizing the saving of lives based on the mishnah in Horios

I was told by R Meir Pogrow that RYSE was asked this question l'maaseh
during the missile attacks on Sderot.

The answer was NOT to prioritize the saving of lives based on the mishnah in
Horios.

I don't know the sevara

mc

On 1/23/2012 11:25 AM, Lisa Liel wrote:
>
> I don't think it does.  I think it means that the type of animal can 
> be trained.  Calling it self-control already assumes some sort of 
> self-awareness, which begs the question.
But then why is there a machlokes? Surely whether lions can be trained 
can be determined empirically.

David Riceman

On 1/19/2012 11:30 AM, David Riceman wrote:
> RMB:
>
> <<The concept of shor hamu'ad (BQ) is whether this animal poses a 
> perpetual danger, or was dangerous once.>>
>
> I was referring to the argument about whether five species can become 
> "b'nei tarbus" or not (unlike snakes, which everyone agrees can not).  
> The expression "bnei tarbus" certainly implies self control, and self 
> control is at least a kissing cousin of bechirah.

I don't think it does.  I think it means that the type of animal can be 
trained.  Calling it self-control already assumes some sort of 
self-awareness, which begs the question.

Lisa

--- On Mon, 1/23/12, Eli Turkel <elitur...@gmail.com> wrote:



<> See, for example, the discussion of The Requirement of Mechitza During
> Prayer and Other Events at <http://tinyurl.com/7fumbm9> where it says
> "Rabbi Feinstein notes that if Mechitzot are required to separate between
> men and women at the solemn occasion of a funeral, then we should all the
> more so require Mechitzot at more festive social gatherings. "

How did RMF allow mixed seating at his daughter's wedding to Rav Tendler??
-------------------------
?
Not only that but -?there is no requirement to have a Mechitza even when
there is Teffila B'Tzibur. Only a Beis HaKnesses requires it. Otherwise you
could never daven Mincha or Maariv B'Tzibur at most weddings where this is
so often done. What happenes there is that the men just gather in a corner
of a room and daven even while women are milling about. There usually is no
Mechitza there.
?
HM
?
Want Emes and Emunah in your life? 

Try this: http://haemtza.blogspot.com/

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On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 10:03:30AM +0200, Liron Kopinsky wrote:
: I have heard that this is a halacha which is dependent on the shul, and not
: on the situation (people davening), and as such, there is no obligation to
: create a mechitza when creating an impromptu minyan outside of a shul.

The notion that mechitzah is a requirement for having a miqdash me'at,
rather than a requirement for davening is often mentiomed in secondary
and tertiary sources. I have not yet found one that brings a mar'eh maqom.

Also, the Bar Ilan shu"t project shows no relevent matches for "mechitzah"
and "miqdash" within 20 words of eachother (11 matche, none about having
an exras nashim). Feel free to suggest better search terms.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

<,Does anyone know what the Rashei Teivot 
&#1512;&#1493;&#1502;&#1497;&#1497;"&#1501; (Reish
Vav Mem Yud Yud Mem) stand for? Rashi, Rosh Hashana 14a DH Eika
Beinayu.>> Looks to me like it's NOT roshei teivos, but a form of
emphasis, and appears to refer to some meforash of Roman origin.
Gershongershon.du...@juno.com 
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On 1/23/2012 3:01 AM, Liron Kopinsky wrote:
> Does anyone know what the Rashei Teivot ?????"? (Reish Vav Mem Yud Yud 
> Mem) stand for? Rashi, Rosh Hashana 14a DH Eika Beinayu.

It isn't rashei teivot.  Sometimes Rashi uses a tchuptchik to indicate 
that it's a foreign word.  If you google Perush Romiim, you get here:

http://books.googl
e.com/books?id=dodhJPwxg38C&;pg=SL1-PA336&lpg=SL1-PA336&dq=p
erush+romiim&source=bl&ots=SCGs2bzzWS&sig=coQ7WP5NL2ckuJr4owjIl
ZleB4k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=y8IeT6q4CYrk0QGAmqwI&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAA#v
=onepage&q=perush%20romiim&f=false

[or http://bit.ly/xPAJGL -micha]

"We know that in Rashi's circle, collections of commentaries on the 
Talmud were used that were known as /Perush romiim/, /Sifrey romiim/, 
and the like.

Lisa

This past Shabbos, our Rav mentioned a story about the Maharal of Prague
involving gilgulim.  (I've also found this story online at
<http://www.eflip.com/prozdor/B_SHM67/p070302.pdf>.)  Given what little
I've read of the Maharal's concept of kabbalah (mostly in the context of
"no, he never made a golem") this felt a bit surprising to me, so I
thought I'd ask those with greater knowledge of the topic:

What is known about the Maharal's attitude toward the concept of gigulim?

--Chesky

On 1/23/2012 9:32 AM, kennethgmil...@juno.com wrote:
> R' Harvey Benton asked:
>    
>> if one takes money/services (garbage collection, etc), from a
>> medina, is one required to have hakaras hatov??
>>      
> I don't understand the question. Why would the hakaras hatov for this
> be any less than the hakaras hatov due to a shopkeeper from whom one
> purchases his milk and bread?
>    
On the contrary.  If a street kid runs into an intersection while you're 
stopped and starts washing your window and demands payment, do you owe 
him hakarat hatov?  I don't think so.

In order to take money/services from a medina, it has to have taken that 
money from you or others or both.  To then receive some of it back 
doesn't seem like something requiring gratitude from the recipient.

I owe hakarat hatov to someone who gives me something of their own, or 
does something for me themselves.  Someone who robs a bank and gives me 
some of the proceeds doesn't merit my gratitude either.

Lisa

On 23/01/2012 2:02 PM, Eli Turkel wrote:
> <> See, for example, the discussion of The Requirement of Mechitza During
>>  Prayer and Other Events at <http://tinyurl.com/7fumbm9> where it says
>>  "Rabbi Feinstein notes that if Mechitzot are required to separate between
>>  men and women at the solemn occasion of a funeral, then we should all the
>>  more so require Mechitzot at more festive social gatherings. "
>
> How did RMF allow mixed seating at his daughter's wedding to Rav Tendler?

Because a wedding is not a public event, since it's by invitation only.
OTOH since a beis ha'avel is open to the public, RMF requires a mechitza
there.

-- 
Zev Sero        "Natural resources are not finite in any meaningful
z...@sero.name    economic sense, mind-boggling though this assertion
                  may be. The stocks of them are not fixed but rather
                 are expanding through human ingenuity."
                                            - Julian Simon

I am posting my response on Avodah to R Micha's post on Areivim about
fasting on a yahrtzeit. YL

At 09:46 AM 1/24/2012, Micha wrote:
>On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 12:08:36PM -0500, Prof. Levine wrote:
>> At 09:51 AM 1/23/2012, SBA wrote:
>>> But the question remains, how come people who are generally makpid on
>>> sticking to halacha - ignore this one?

>> I have given up trying to figure out why people do or do not do this or
>> that.  YL
...

>    I think the taanis is minhag, not din.

The following is from page 418 of Mourning in Halacha

~ Fasting

24. It is a mitzvah to fast on the yahrzeit of one's father or mother. 54
In the Minchah prayer of the fast, one recites Aneinu ("Answer us ... ")
[in the blessing Shome'a tefillah "Who hears prayer")], as always during
an individual fast. 55

It is desirable to accept the fast upon oneself during the previous day's
Minchah prayer, in accord with the law of an individual fast. If one
forgot to do so, but one customarily fasts on the yahrzeit, one is still
required to fast. But if one does not customarily fast on this day, the
fast is not valid unless one accepted it upon oneself before sundown. 56

If one fasted on the first yahrzeit without stipulating that he did
not intend this practice to have the force of a vow, it is nevertheless
considered a vow. If one subsequently decides not to fast on the yahrzeit,
one must be released from the vow. 57

25. It is good to fast on the yahrzeit of one's primary teacher (rabbo
muvhak). since one is obligated to honor him even more than one's
father. 58

54. Rama (376:4 and 402:12); Shulchan Aruch (Orach Chaim 568:7). Some
suggest that one fasts on the yahrzeit because on that day one's maza/
(fortune) was bad (Maharam Mintz ?9; Levush, Yoreh De'ah 402:12; Leket
Yosher p. 98, citing the author of Terumas HaDeshen). Others explain
that the fast is to gain atonement for one's parent, since every year
their soul undergoes a small amount of judgment (Maharam Mintz, ?9;
Levush loc. cit.; Leket Yosher loc. cit.).

55. Kitzur Shulchan Aruch (loc. cit.).

56. Gesher HaChaim (32:6).

57. Chochmas Adam (171: 11); Kitzur Shulchan Aruch (221: 1); Gesher
HaChaim (loc. cit. par. 7).

On 1/23/2012 11:44 AM, David Riceman wrote:
> On 1/23/2012 11:25 AM, Lisa Liel wrote:
>>
>> I don't think it does.  I think it means that the type of animal can 
>> be trained.  Calling it self-control already assumes some sort of 
>> self-awareness, which begs the question.

> But then why is there a machlokes? Surely whether lions can be trained 
> can be determined empirically.

How so?  If someone tries to train a lion and gets et, maybe they were 
just bad at it.

Lisa


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