Avodah Mailing List

Volume 31: Number 141

Mon, 05 Aug 2013

• 1. Life iver (mistakenly life over) (Eli Turkel)
• 2. Synthetic Meat (Nachum Binyamin Klafter, MD)
• 3. Re: Synthetic Meat (Micha Berger)
• 4. Re: Lifne iver (mistakenly life over) (Zev Sero)
• 5. Re: Synthetic Meat (Yitzchak Schaffer)
• 6. Re: Synthetic Meat (Zev Sero)

Let me try again
The question is not whether the giver considers it treif but rather whether
he views the receivers peak as legitimate

Some examples
A sefardi can give an Ashkenazi nonglatt meat even though it is prohibited
to the sefardi since he recognizes that the Ashkenazi paskens like the
Ramah. Similar situations occur with regard to heating on shabbat where the
mechaber and remah have their arguments or wine for kiddush etc
There are well known stories of rsza passing on shalachot manot he received
to the next visitor regardless of the hasgacha

Sadly in today's world of kashrut many people feel that their level is not
just more machmir but that those that rely on hechsher X are eating treif

The same goes for smart phones and many other issues. No longer do we have
a range of piskei halachot but instead my way is right and your way is
glatt treif. Again a prime example is heter mechira. While all followers of
R Kook and rsza and also ROY allow heter mechira at least bidieved there is
a push to completely outlaw it and require hechsher keilim for one who
changes to not using the heater

Bottom what is the definition of a legitimate hechsher is subjective

Kol tuv
Eli Turkel

We will need to see precisely how the tissue is grown.  However, I assume 
that the following is the case:  Stem cells which are in an aqueous solution 
and have absolutely no visible, detectable metziyus, were injected with 
genetic material from the nuclei of cardiac cells.  The cells divide on an 
agar medium.  The basic building blocks of those cells (amino acides, 
nucleic acids, sugar, minerals, glucose) will be provided to those cells.

My understanding is that the "meat" would be parve, and that there should be 
no problem of eiver min-ha-chay or any other kashrus issue.

At a certain point, the relevant sequences of DNA will be synthesized with 
viruses and bacteria, and no animal will be the "source" of any of these 
ingredients to the synthetic meat.  Rather, the animals genome is the source 
of the information being used to clone the cells.

It should not be very hard to synthesize parve milk as well.

--
Nachum Klafter, MD
???? ?????? ???????
7502 State Road, Suite 2280
Cincinnati, OH 45255
(513)474-8900 FAX(513)233-6693
doctorklaf...@cinci.rr.com 

On Sun, Aug 04, 2013 at 10:09:03PM -0400, Nachum Binyamin Klafter, MD wrote:
> My understanding is that the "meat" would be parve, and that there should 
> be no problem of eiver min-ha-chay or any other kashrus issue.
...
> It should not be very hard to synthesize parve milk as well.

Unless it is decided that the gezeiros against the meat of a ben paqua
and the milk removed from a shechted animal would apply here.

I do not know how one decides that this is another instance under what
was already banned, or an improper extension to mah shelo gazru rabbanan.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             You cannot propel yourself forward
mi...@aishdas.org        by patting yourself on the back.
http://www.aishdas.org                   -Anonymous
Fax: (270) 514-1507

On 4/08/2013 9:53 PM, Eli Turkel wrote:
> A sefardi can give an Ashkenazi nonglatt meat even though it is
> prohibited to the sefardi since he recognizes that the Ashkenazi
> paskens like the Ramah.

so? Isn't that precisely what we're discussing? The BY holds that the
meat is treif. If you really hold that way, then how can you give it
to someone else who mistakenly believes otherwise? Objectively he is
(according to you) wrong.


> There are well known stories of rsza passing on shalachot manot he
> received to the next visitor regardless of the hasgacha

What has that got to do with it? Presumably he agreed that that hechsher
did adhere to ikkar hadin, and the food was kosher, just not mehudar.
Would he have have passed on something he regarded as treif? How do
you know?


-- 
Zev Sero
z...@sero.name

On 08/04/2013 10:09 PM, Nachum Binyamin Klafter, MD wrote:
> We will need to see precisely how the tissue is grown.  However, I
> assume that the following is the case:  Stem cells which are in an
> aqueous solution and have absolutely no visible, detectable metziyus...

> My understanding is that the "meat" would be parve, and that there
> should be no problem of eiver min-ha-chay or any other kashrus issue.

Wouldn't this be just as "bad" as poultry in terms of resembling meat,
and thus subject to an issur de-rabanan?

On 5/08/2013 9:04 AM, Yitzchak Schaffer wrote:
> On 08/04/2013 10:09 PM, Nachum Binyamin Klafter, MD wrote:
>> We will need to see precisely how the tissue is grown.  However, I
>> assume that the following is the case:  Stem cells which are in an
>> aqueous solution and have absolutely no visible, detectable metziyus...
>
>> My understanding is that the "meat" would be parve, and that there
>> should be no problem of eiver min-ha-chay or any other kashrus issue.
>
> Wouldn't this be just as "bad" as poultry in terms of resembling meat,
> and thus subject to an issur de-rabanan?

How so?  Poultry resembles meat because it needs shechitah and salting;
this would require neither.


-- 
Zev Sero               A citizen may not be required to offer a 'good and
z...@sero.name          substantial reason' why he should be permitted to
                        exercise his rights. The right's existence is all
                        the reason he needs.
                            - Judge Benson E. Legg, Woollard v. Sheridan


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End of Avodah Digest, Vol 31, Issue 141
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