Avodah Mailing List

Volume 31: Number 166

Tue, 24 Sep 2013

• 1. Re: smart watch (Zev Sero)
• 2. maamid (Eli Turkel)
• 3. Re: HaMelech Hakadosh (Kenneth Miller)
• 4. Re: HaMelech Hakadosh (mgl...@mail.gmail.com)
• 5. R Asher Weiss (Eli Turkel)
• 6. technology and halacha (Rich, Joel)
• 7. Borough Park, NY - Big Camera Installation Set For Hasidic Neighborhood Where Leiby Kletzky Was Murdered (Prof. Levine)
• 8. Re: technology and halacha (Zev Sero)
• 9. FW: Sleeping in the Sukkah (Rich, Joel)
• 10. Re: Dimensions of a circular sukkah (Kenneth Miller)
• 11. preparing during shmoneh esrai (Rich, Joel)
• 12. Assumptions of Religious progress may not be right after all... (Micha Berger)
• 13. Re: Borough Park, NY - Big Camera Installation Set For Hasidic Neighborhood Where Leiby Kletzky Was Murdered (Ben Waxman)
• 14. LeiSheiv (Rabbi Meir G. Rabi, its Kosher!)
• 15. showering on a three day chag (Ben Waxman)
• 16. How old is the world? (Prof. Levine)
• 17. Re: showering on a three day chag (Micha Berger)

On 21/09/2013 2:59 PM, Eli Turkel wrote:
> In addition to my previous post my son recently bought a pebble
> smartwatch. He said that he had to disable some functions to be able
> to use on shabbat/chag. He felt that the Samsung smartwatch could not
> be used and that future smart watches ,ight be a problem depending on
> how much can be disabled manually.

This brings us back to the '70s, and LED digital watches, which could not
be worn on Shabbat.

-- 
Zev Sero               A citizen may not be required to offer a 'good and
z...@sero.name          substantial reason' why he should be permitted to
                        exercise his rights. The right's existence is all
                        the reason he needs.
                            - Judge Benson E. Legg, Woollard v. Sheridan

<<The CI holds that ma'amid does not only go to one level of
causation. Since the sekhakh rests on the walls, or on wood that rests
on the walls, the walls are maamid, and since they in turn are ma'amidim
via the screws, the screws are maamidim the sekhakh as well (by 2 steps
of causation).>>

Just to stress gain, CI is a shitat yachid that few follow.
Arukh HaShulchan states that Maamid is derabbanan for basically maarat ayin.
People would get confused between the metal holding up the schach and the
schach. Hence it does
not apply to something holding up the maamid and certainly not to nails

-- 
Eli Turkel
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Cantor Wolberg wrote:

> To me it would be obvious that it is invalid since it is the
> converse of the halacha. ...
> In other words, if 'hamelech hakadosh is specific for the aseres
> y'mei t'shuva and doing the usual 'hakel hakadosh' instead would
> render it invalid, then the converse would also be true. If it
> were not so, and doing the 'Hamelech hakadosh' after the aseres
> y'mei t'shuva didn't invalidate the tefilla, then the hamelech
> hakadosh during the ten days, would lose its essence.

If I'm understanding correctly, then the explanation you're giving is
similar to what R' Micha Berger posted, which he described as "symmetry" -
mutually exclusive alternatives.

But it's not necessarily so. I've always thought "HaE-l Hakadosh" to be a
general term, and "Hamelech Hakadosh" to be an amplification of it. In
other words, that "Hamelech" *includes* "HaE-l". Were it not so, then we
would be missing something during AYT which is present (and possibly
required) during the year.

Similarly, it is difficult for me to imagine that one who says "HaMelech
HaMishpat" during the year would have to go back to correct it. Even though
it is actually fewer words than usual, it is -- hmmm, how to phrase this?
It is a more powerful, and more inclusive comment than merely "Melech Oheiv
Tzadaka Umishpat".

I thank R' Simon Montagu for citing the Kaf Hachaim, who explicitly says -
for both of these brachos - that one who says the AYT version during the
year does NOT need to go back.

Akiva Miller
____________________________________________________________
One Weird Trick
Could add $1,000s to Your Social Security Checks! See if you Qualify&#8230
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/523e451a5d54e451a5292st02vuc

R' Akiva Miller:
> I thank R' Simon Montagu for citing the Kaf Hachaim, who explicitly
> says - for both of these brachos - that one who says the AYT version
> during the year does NOT need to go back.

See also Shaarei Teshuvah to OC 118:1 who brings various opinions about
this.

KT,
MYG

Shiurim and teshuvot of R. Asher Weiss

http://tvunah.org/

-- 
Eli Turkel
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What is the earliest example of halacha responding to changes in technology (e.g. corrective lenses for torah reader)
GT
Joel Rich
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 From http://tinyurl.com/nnbc2tk

Borough Park, NY - In a city that?s ramped up 
surveillance since the 9/11 attacks, the next big 
installation of security cameras is not in the 
bustle of midtown Manhattan or near a well-known 
tourist attraction but in a leafy section of 
Brooklyn known for its low crime and large Orthodox Jewish population.

A hundred security cameras will be installed on 
public lampposts throughout the Midwood and 
Borough Park neighborhoods in the coming months ? 
the result of a $1 million state grant secured in 
the wake of a horrifying tragedy: the 2011 
abduction, dismemberment and murder of an 
8-year-old Hasidic boy named Leiby Kletzky.

See the above URL for more.

Halachic question:

These cameras will be working on Shabbos also,  I 
presume.  What implications,  if any, does this 
have for observant Jews who walk by them?  Is 
there no problem or must one avoid them on Shabbos and Yom Tov.

IIRC,  the cameras at the Kosel do not operate on 
Shabbos,  but I am not sure of this.

YL
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On 23/09/2013 7:22 AM, Rich, Joel wrote:
> What is the earliest example of halacha responding to changes in
> technology (e.g. corrective lenses for torah reader)

Perhaps the earliest such adaptation was the switch from stone knives to
metal for bris milah.  Despite the medrash about Golyas, it seems to me
that it's far more likely to have been caused by advances in metallurgy.

Another early change would be the adoption of the talles koton, in response
to the change in clothing styles, resulting in people's normal clothes no
longer having four corners.

Or if you merely mean discussion of whether some technological change
will affect the halacha, then we have one in the gemara about whether the
new-fangled ink with vitriol in it is kosher for sta"m.

-- 
Zev Sero               A citizen may not be required to offer a 'good and
z...@sero.name          substantial reason' why he should be permitted to
                        exercise his rights. The right's existence is all
                        the reason he needs.
                            - Judge Benson E. Legg, Woollard v. Sheridan

[The following Hebrew is a quote from the Rama, OC, Hilkhos Sukkah,
639:2 You can follow along on WikiSource at <http://j.mp/1gUyd9Q>.
-micha]

????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?

???: ??? ??????? ???? ????? ?????, ???? ????? ????? ?? ???????? ?????, ?"?
(??) ? ???? ???, ??? ??? ???? ??????? ????? (????? ?' ????); <?> ???
???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?????, ? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ????, ??????
??? ???? ???? ?? ????, ???? ?? ???? ??????, (??) ????; ???? ?????? ??????
?? ?? ???? ??? ???? ?? ?? ????, ?? ???? ????? ?? ???? ??????.

Would be interested in discussing how to view the Rama's being "mchadeish"
a reason for a seemingly well established practice of not sleeping in
the sukkah. IIUC the usual approach (e.g. by kapparot) is to assume that
older and greater Rabbis had a reason for establishing the practice. It
also seems clear that there was not a Mesorah as to the reason or
the Rama would have known and stated it. It would then seem one has a
number choices:

1. do an actuarial analysis of a few winters and determine whether the
practice seems driven by cold, marital status or something else (just
kidding, I know that's not what's done)

2. keep the practice as a chok (i.e. admit we don't know reason and
simply continue the practice unabated)

3. Guess as to the reason (i.e. as a prescriptive not a descriptive
reason -- siman vs. sibah) and act on it even though it may be incorrect.

4. reject the hypothesis that the minhag was accepted by greater Rabbis
and just trash it

How do poskim decide?

Moadim Lsimcha
Joel Rich

R' Micha Berger wrote:

> Yes, three really is close enough to pi halakhah lemaseh. How
> do I know, because (as one example):
[[[ RMB quoted my citation of the Shaar Hatziyun's calculations ]]]
> IOW, why ask a question in surprise rather than take it as your
> answer?

Okay, let me reframe my problem... ("no pun intended", he said, on the fourth rereading :-)

Let's suppose I build a sukkah, perfectly circular, of a material of
negligible thickness, and I measure the circumference to be 29.4 tefachim.
I then say the bracha of Layshev and have a meal inside.

Later, I start filling in the bulges of the rounded walls, so that I'm left
with four perfectly flat walls, of equal size and shape. I don't bother
measuring them, because they obviously form a square of 7 tefachim on a
side - the Beis Yosef said so.

Along comes a curious person with a ruler, and finds the diagonal of this
square (formerly known as The Diameter Of The Circle) to be about 9.35831
tefachim. Intrigued, he measures the walls, and finds all of them to be
only 6.61732 tefachim wide.

Is the sukkah still kosher?
Was it *ever* kosher?
If it had been kosher, but is now pasul, then at exactly which point did it become pasul?

Perhaps it is kosher for me, but not for the guy who measured it? Sort of like "shavya anafshay chaticha d'isura"?

Akiva Miller
____________________________________________________________
One Weird Trick
Could add $1,000s to Your Social Security Checks! See if you Qualify&#8230
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/52409d04a64981d0449d1st01vuc

[The Hebrew  is from SA OC, Hilkhos Tefilah, 124:2, and the MB ad loc
s"q 17. The SA is available on WikiSource at <http://j.mp/1fwbYJk>,
and the MB at <http://j.mp/18lSrrW>.  -micha]

????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?

* ?"? ????? ????"? ???? ???? ??????? ????, (?) ???? ???? ????? ???? ?????
?????, ???? ???? ????? ?????? ? ???? ?? ?????, (?) ??"? ????? ???????
????. ???: ??? ?? ??? (?) ??? ????, ???? ???? * (?) ? ?????? ??? ?????,
???? ?????? ??? ???? ??, (?) ?????? ??????? ??? ??? ???? * ???? ?? ????
??? (?) ?????, (?) ? ???? ????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??? ? ??? ???? [?]
??"? (????"?).

???? ????? ???? ??? ?"? ??

(??) ?????? - ?"? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ??"? [??]
?????? ?? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???
?????? ?"? ?? ??? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ???
??? ?????? ??"? ?????? ????? ????? ?"? ????? ??????? ?? ?????:

The S"A/M"B seem pretty clear about appropriate behavior during chazarat
hashatz. How does one explain the seemingly common practice to take off
tfillin, unsheathe lulav and esrog, and even make a bracha on them during
chazarat hashatz?

GT
Joel Rich

One of the underlying assumptions under which Document Hypothesis operates
is that religion progressed over time through the period Tanakh covers.
They therefore assume that the laws found in P would be a later
development than the narrative and ethic based scriptures of E/J.

Another bit of alleged religious progress is the belief that the original
Israelite religion was not monotheistic, and at best advocated henotheism.
(Belief that only one god should be worshipped, although still believing
that other gods exist.)

Well, turns out that archeological evidence is inconsistent with critical
and archeological theories that assume the latter. See
<http://asorblog.org/?p=5786>.

(H/T Mosaic.)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             When faced with a decision ask yourself,
mi...@aishdas.org        "How would I decide if it were Ne'ilah now,
http://www.aishdas.org   at the closing moments of Yom Kippur?"
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            - Rav Yisrael Salanter

They most certainly do work on Shabbat, as do the metal detectors. Rav 
Elyashiv reportedly ruled that one shouldn't walk in the Old City on 
Shabbat. However that is an entirely different kettle of fish as Jews 
are doing the oversight.

Ben

On 9/23/2013 5:16 PM, Prof. Levine wrote:
>
>
> IIRC,  the cameras at the Kosel do not operate on Shabbos,  but I am 
> not sure of this.
>
> YL

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Why do we not make the Beracha of LeiSheiv before HaMotzi? After all it is
the first Mitzvah. In fact even though custom has emerged to only make the
Beracha when eating, we ought to make LeiSheiv as soon as we enter to have
our meal, before we wash or make Kiddush.
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With another three day chag coming up (for those outside of Israel) I 
thought that I would send the following.

http://www.zomet.org.il/_Uploads/1490.pdf (page 5)
http://en.calameo.com/read/001660802e43d2426f8ca (page 47)

Many have the custom of not showering even during a three day chag. Rav 
Rimon and Rav Melamed both wrote this year that it is permitted.

Rav Rimon gives two reasons:
1) Showering is a "devar shaveh l'kol nefesh". Heating up water is not 
the luxury item that it used to be, therefore there is no reason to 
prohibit showering lest someone heat up water for the shower.
2) Since a daily (or more) shower is quite the norm, and going without a 
shower for even one day leaves one to feel uncomfortable, we are defined 
as "mitz'taer".

If one has a solar heater that removes any problem of heating the water, 
certainly on Yom Tov.

Both rabbanim rule that one should use liquid soap.

Ben

 From http://tinyurl.com/l6t88mq

Mr. Friedmann, based on classical sources, aligns the dates of key 
events as described in Genesis 1 and 2 with those derived from 
scientific theory and observation. How? One Creation Day = 1,000 x 
365.25 x 7,000 = 2.56 billion years.

<Snip>

Mr. Friedmann then calculates that the Age of the universe from the 
start of Day 1 to today: exactly 13.74 billion years, coinciding with 
the latest scientific measurements.

YL  (Without comment)
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On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 07:01:12AM +0200, Ben Waxman wrote:
> Many have the custom of not showering even during a three day chag. Rav  
> Rimon and Rav Melamed both wrote this year that it is permitted....

It's not a rare pesaq. In my hometown of Passaic, a number of LORs have
ruled similarly. In particular in this week's scenario, where Friday is
Simchas Torah, and therefore the more leibedik dancers could REALLY use
a shower.

...
> Both rabbanim rule that one should use liquid soap.

Common among pesaqim here is a warning about hair drying and not
committing sechitah.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             I thank God for my handicaps, for, through them,
mi...@aishdas.org        I have found myself, my work, and my God.
http://www.aishdas.org                - Helen Keller
Fax: (270) 514-1507


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