Volume 33: Number 58
Wed, 15 Apr 2015
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Prof. Levine
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 09:44:04 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Could a New Gadget Change Shabbat Observance -
From http://tinyurl.com/njr5j7a
List of leading rabbis endorse 'Kosherswitch' to allow lights on
Shabbat. High-voltage project could send a current through Jewish world.
Will Shabbat observance change forever with a flick of a switch?
A new gadget was released to the mass market on Monday promising
Orthodox Jews a solution to the age-old problem of leaving lights on
or off on Shabbat and then being prevented by Jewish law from
flipping the switch.
The new invention, dubbed "KosherSwitch," has been beta-tested since
2009 - but
<https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/kosherswitch-control-ele
ctricity-on-shabbat#home>an
indiegogo campaign launched Monday promises to bring the project to
the masses.
See the above URL for more as well as for a video explaining how this
device works.
YL
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Message: 2
From: Micha Berger
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 10:59:18 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Could a New Gadget Change Shabbat Observance -
On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 09:44:04AM -0400, Prof. Levine via Avodah wrote:
: From http://tinyurl.com/njr5j7a
:> List of leading rabbis endorse 'Kosherswitch' to allow lights on
:> Shabbat. High-voltage project could send a current through Jewish
:> world.
:> Will Shabbat observance change forever with a flick of a switch?
Unlikely. They say this is new tech, which could be true since they got
a [atenmt, but the How it Works page and the ptent describe something
much like what Machon Zomet uses in their wheelchairs
<http://www.zomet.org.il/eng/?CategoryID=198&;ArticleID=409>.
Actually, Zomet makes sure their switch changes the amount of current,
I see nothing in the patent about anything but turning the power on
and off entirely -- it appears *more* problematic. The engineers
among us can check out <http://www.kosherswitch.com/liv/?wpgb_dl=7>.
As you can read on Zomet's site, R Neuwirth permits the wheelchair only
because the issue is basic mobility. KosherSwitch.com shows you that that
RYN signed on a "me too" to R' Pinchas Zabihi's haskamah. I have a notion
that once things are clarified, the truth is more somewhere in between.
When a house is on fire, and someone puts up a wall of pottery flasks
filled with water to arrest its progress, geram kibui is mutar. See SA
OC 334:22. The Rama either adds or explains (citing the Mordekhai),
that this is bemaqom peseida. But gerama isn't suddenly mutar even
without hefsed meruba or kevod haberios as a matir.
So it all boils down to whether they really have a new tech that
is more legitimate for them to call "un-grama" than Machon Zomet's
design.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Today is the 10th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org 1 week and 3 days in/toward the omer.
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Message: 3
From: Prof. Levine
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 10:12:34 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] The Kosher Switch: A Response from the Tzomet
From http://tinyurl.com/ptcfckt
The rabbinic world and blogosophere (see, for
example, here) has been abuzz about the propriety
of the Kosher Switch, which its producers claim
allows one to halakhically turn on and off lights
on shabbat. Attached here is the Hebrew response
of Rabbi Yisrael Rosen, the prominent engineer
who heads the Tzomet Institute, which includes
(signed) clarifications of the positions of Rabbi
Avigdor Nevenzahl and Rabbi Yehoshua
Neuwirth. It is was sent on Tzomet stationery to
Rabbi David Mescheloff, and is reprinted here with permission.
Below is a rough English translation of the first
page, which does not include some of the halakhic
argumentation provided on the 2nd page of the
original Hebrew. For all scholarly and halakhic
purposes, and purposes of citation, only the
original Hebrew letter should be seen as the
authoritative writing of Rabbi Rosen.
<Snip>
D. And here is the main part of my remarks:
Yesterday I went to my teacher and rabbi HaGaon
Rabbi Yehoshua Neuwirth, Shlita, and I asked him
whether he permitted to use this switch to
activate electricity on Shabbat for the purposes
of Oneg Shabbat, etc? He was really shocked and
said he never permitted that. When I showed him
the endorsement letter, he added in his
handwriting: ?Only for medicine and security?
(see photo in attached Hebrew article). Rabbi
Avigdor Nebenzahl Shlita, who signed a similar
letter, also told me yesterday that he does not
recall ever signing anything like that, and
expressed the opinion that there is no place for
this and was puzzled about the whole thing.
I suppose that whoever managed to get the
signatures of important rabbis ?sold? them an
invention that is a kind of a complex Gramma used
for the purpose of medicine or security, and
succeeded in skipping this condition when they signed.
E. With regard to the claim, written in their
accompanying halachic responsum, that it is
permitted to use this Gramma switch to minimize
the prohibition of those who willfully the
violate the Shabbat, we have never heard of such
rabbis who permit this. I am sure that those who
?agreed? did not see this argument, and this is
an argument that should not be stated.
See the above URL for more. YL
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Message: 4
From: Joseph Kaplan
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 11:01:38 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] RYBS's Talk on Hafkaas Kiddushin, Talmud Torah and
"We must not tamper, not only with the halachos,
but even with the chazakos, for the chazakos of which chazal spoke
rest not upon transient psychological behavioral patterns, but upon
permanent ontological principles rooted in the very depth of the
human personality, in the metaphysical human personality, which
is as changeless as the heavens above."
Can anybody explain what this really means? That is, explain it to someone
who doesn't use the word "ontological" in his/her normal speech. I have
read it many many times but I still don't understand what the Rav is saying.
Joseph
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Message: 5
From: Eli Turkel
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 17:42:18 +0300
Subject: [Avodah] tefillat haderech
I guess I was a little too succinct in my last post.
The major problem is that many consider tefillat haderech as a tefillah and
not as a bracha. Thus while one can be motze other for a bracha one cannot
do it for a tefillah.
Hence, R Nebenzahl paskens that all those that know how to say by
themselves should do so
R C Kanevsky says it is preferable for each person to say by themself
R Tuvia Goldstein says that one cannot be yotzeh someone else and claims
that he convinced RMF of that
R Belsky repeats that it is a tefillah and not a bracha and so it is
appropriate (min ha-raui) that everyone says it for themself.
R Aviner says that it is "rachamim" and therefore it is preferable that
each one requests for themselves however bidieved one can be motzi others
The sefer Piskei Teshuvot (siman 110-2) has a discussion whether one is
required to say tefillat haderech in modern times. He concludes that one
who does not say it on major roads has someone to rely on but someone who
also says it has the reward of a tefilla even though we no longer have
"listin" and wild animals on the roads. Instead we have a car accidents.
Therefore one should also say tefillat haderech on railroads and planes. He
claims that on small side roads that everyone paskens you need to say
tefillat haderech
--
Eli Turkel
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Message: 6
From: Micha Berger
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 11:22:22 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] RYBS's Talk on Hafkaas Kiddushin, Talmud Torah
On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 03:45:47AM +0000, Kenneth Miller via Avodah wrote:
: From what I understand, the objection to hafkaas kiddushin comes from a
: presumption that a woman would prefer to stay with her husband, even if
: he seems to be a terrible person, and even if she tells us that in *her*
: opinion he is a terrible person -- and we have this presumption because
: of the chazaka of tan du.
You phrased it as a psychological issue. RYBS says it's something
existential or ontological -- and explicitly NOT pschological. I think
he is saying that this vector exists in every woman's character. Even
when current social reality provides other vectors that may submerge tav
lemeisiv tan du, it is an entity present in her psyche (ontologically)
still shaping her perception of reality (existential).
And because of that element of her soul, inherited from Chavah, it's very
hard to ever call a marriage a complete meqach ta'us on the bride's part.
But again, my impression from RAL which is reinforced by this
transcript, this particular argument was a side-bar, not RYBS's
primary argument. Eg:
...
: I can easily understand opposition to Hafkaas Kiddushin on the grounds
: that widespread use would give *all* marriages a sort of "tentative"
: status. But that's not what people are referring to here, right? ...
RYBS discusses that issue at greater length than this one anyway.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Today is the 10th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org 1 week and 3 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org Tifferes sheb'Gevurah: When does strict
Fax: (270) 514-1507 judgment bring balance and harmony?
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Message: 7
From: Micha Berger
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 11:32:45 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] support obligations
On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 03:54:11AM +0000, Kenneth Miller via Avodah wrote:
: R' Micha Berger wrote:
: > Assuming she didn't agree to the arrangement. Ortherwise, the wife
: > willingly waved her claim to his income, and took on the obligation
: > of self- and child-support.
: I would argue that she accepted the financial responsibilities only
: in exchange for the s'char she gets from enabling her husband to learn
: Torah, and that once he ceases to be her husband, that arrangement ends,
: and the whole thing reverts to the usual. Phrased differently, once he
: stops giving her the s'char of sharing in his learning, he has to give
: her a more practical olam-hazeh sort of support.
We are in the weird situation of talking about what the bride was
agreeing to WRT a situation she never pictured arising.
(I am reminded of Avodah discussions about what the Rambam would do if
faced with what he perceives as a solid philosophical proof for a position
he could not find a basis for in Torah. Would he declare something an
allegory despite a lack of source in Chazal, would he dismiss the proof
as flawed, perhaps even assuming the flaw had to be something he didn't
yet find? The Rambam thought the situation was impossible.)
So, I want to detour into a case more likely to have crossed the
kallah's mind -- his death. If the husband predeceases her without
having left kollel, she wouldn't expect him to leave her the same
estate than if he had spent that time earning money.
It may be equally valid to argue that the bride relinquishes claims
to money even after he finishes learning, in exchange for supporting
him while learning -- however long that lasts.
I really don't know which way of looking at things is more valid.
It's kind of like the old chestnut, "But if you did have a brother,
would he like noodles?"
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Today is the 10th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org 1 week and 3 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org Tifferes sheb'Gevurah: When does strict
Fax: (270) 514-1507 judgment bring balance and harmony?
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Message: 8
From: Harry Weiss
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 10:00:06 -0700
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Davening Outdoors
> From http://www.dinonline.org/2012/07/11/davening-outdoors/
>> Is it problematic to daven outdoors?
...
>> The Gemara (Berachos 34b) writes that it is wrong
>> (arrogant - chatzuf) to daven in an open field.
>> Rashi explains that in an open field, one doesn't
>> feel fear of the King, and one doesn't pray with
>> a broken heart. Tosafos, however, understands
>> that the concern is for passers-by, who are
>> liable to disturb a person's davening.
>> The Magen Avraham (90:6) rules that the problem
>> is that davening outside makes a haughty
>> statement...
...
>> Therefore, although it is not forbidden to daven
>> outdoors, it is wrong to daven in an open area,
>> and one should seek a sheltered place.
As you see from the above it is the Lechatichilla not do daven in an
open place, Last week we had a mincha minyan at the grand canyon, (to
wait to a more appropriate place it would have been well after dark)
When one davens in a large minyan and is surrounded by other people
davening it is easier to concentrate on the tefilla.
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Message: 9
From: Micha Berger
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 15:44:02 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Fwd [TM]: Why Does God Test Us?
RGStudent recently posted a piece to answer the question "Why Does God
Test Us?" <http://torahmusings.com/why-does-god-test-us>
The notion that the all-knowing God needs to test us to determine
whether we will follow His command is absurd. He knows the future and
therefore gains nothing from the exercise. Yet the Torah discusses in
multiple places God's tests. For example, regarding the man (manna)
that fell in the desert, God states: "So that I may test them, whether
they will follow My law or not" (Ex. 16:4).
The midrash (Tanchuma, Vayera 23) expresses the question aptly:
...
I. Personal Growth
The Kuzari (5:20), followed by the Ramban (Gen. 22:1; Ex. 16:4; Deut.
13:4; Toras Ha-Bayis in Kisvei Ha-Ramban, vol. 2 pp. 272-273), explains
that God tests people in order to actualize their potential goodness....
II. Education
Rambam (Moreh Nevukhim 3:24) takes an entirely different approach. He
sees divine tests as a way to publicize, and thereby teach, the
righteousness of an individual....
III. Adult Education
I believe that, aside from midrashic sources and textual cues, Rambam
had a more fundamental reason for taking a path different from that of
the Kuzari and Ramban. The Gemara (Makkos 10a) says that Heaven takes
you in the direction you wish to go. Similarly, another Gemara (Yoma
39a) says that someone who wishes to become pure (i.e. do good) is
divinely assisted. Apparently, the Ramban takes this literally. ...
IV. Self-Discovery
Radal (ibid.) offers a third approach to understanding divine
tests. Pirkei De-Rabbi Eliezer (31) says that the test was for
Avraham to know his heart. God certainly know whether we will pass a
test but poses it so that we learn our own abilities. Like a good
coach, God pushes us farther than we think we can go. This, too,
applies to adults who often underestimate their capacity for strength.
God only tests those who will pass and by doing so teaches us the
extent of our faith and endurance.
...
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Today is the 10th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org 1 week and 3 days in/toward the omer.
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Fax: (270) 514-1507 judgment bring balance and harmony?
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Message: 10
From: Micha Berger
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 18:41:53 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] reviit
On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 07:54:45PM +0300, Eli Turkel via Avodah wrote:
: In the sefer of Rav Aviner he brings many examples of gedolim who used a
: kiddush cup the size of the shiur of R Chaim Naeh (86 CC) and not CI.
: He says he heard from RSZA that when RCN published his sefer on shiurim the
: rabbis of Yerushalayim were astounded at his chumra !!
Interesting, because I thought that RACN's agenda was to justify the
accepted practice in his local, in EY in the early 20th cent. (Something
I learned on-list 15 years ago.) Minhag Y-m is RACN's shiurim, because
RACN started with the assumption that Minhag Y-m was roughly accuate,
with the Sepharadim being the more precise.
RACN himself was a Lubavitcher chassid of the Yishuva haYashan, born
in Chevron. I do not know why people usually call him "Rav Chaim Naeh",
ommitting his first name "Avraham".
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Today is the 10th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org 1 week and 3 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org Tifferes sheb'Gevurah: When does strict
Fax: (270) 514-1507 judgment bring balance and harmony?
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Message: 11
From: Micha Berger
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 18:50:06 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Davening Outdoors
On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 10:00:06AM -0700, Harry Weiss via Avodah wrote:
: > From http://www.dinonline.org/2012/07/11/davening-outdoors/
: >> Is it problematic to daven outdoors?
: ...
: >> The Gemara (Berachos 34b) writes that it is wrong
: >> (arrogant - chatzuf) to daven in an open field.
:
: >> Rashi explains that in an open field, one doesn't
: >> feel fear of the King, and one doesn't pray with
: >> a broken heart. Tosafos, however, understands
: >> that the concern is for passers-by, who are
: >> liable to disturb a person's davening.
:
: >> The Magen Avraham (90:6) rules that the problem
: >> is that davening outside makes a haughty
: >> statement...
: ...
: >> Therefore, although it is not forbidden to daven
: >> outdoors, it is wrong to daven in an open area,
: >> and one should seek a sheltered place.
:
....
: When one davens in a large minyan and is surrounded by other people
: davening it is easier to concentrate on the tefilla.
The Kotel Plaza doesn't suffer from any of these concerns, which is
unsurprising because centuries of gedolim had no problem davening outside
at the kotel.
It's set up like a shul, so there is no special chutzpah or yuharah in
davening there.
Interruptions are likely, but generally for other mitzvos -- tzedaqah,
or answering qaddish or qedushah from nearby minyanim. In terms
And the location actively fosters yir'ah, koveid rosh and a broken heart.
However, davening at Robinson's arch might suffer from the yuhara issue.
(Personally, I find it more moving than the Kotel Plaza. One stands on
the same road walked by oleh regel, among stones thrown off Har haBayis
by the Roman Army (whether during the churban or when Hadrian had the
har plowed, I do not know). Behind me are the ghosts of shopkeepers,
ready to exchange my maaser sheini coins back to food, sell me flour
for a qorban Todah or an animal for a differen qorban. The miqvah is a
bit back, and to the left.)
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Today is the 10th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org 1 week and 3 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org Tifferes sheb'Gevurah: When does strict
Fax: (270) 514-1507 judgment bring balance and harmony?
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Message: 12
From: Kenneth Miller
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:12:56 GMT
Subject: Re: [Avodah] tefillat haderech
R' Eli Turkel wrote:
> The major problem is that many consider tefillat haderech as a
> tefillah and not as a bracha. Thus while one can be motze other
> for a bracha one cannot do it for a tefillah.
I am very confused. Many poskim recommend point out that Tefilas Haderech
does not begin with "Baruch", so they recommend saying it after another
bracha (such as Asher Yatzar, or a Bracha Acharona on food), so as to make
it into a Bracha Hasemucha L'chvertah. But if Tefilas Haderech is not a
bracha to begin with, then I do not see the advantage of such a procedure.
According to "Halachically Speaking", vol 1 pg 76, the poskim who recommend
the above procedure includes: Magen Avraham 110:13, Machatzis Hashekel
110:13, Be'er Hetev 110:10, Shulchan Aruch Harav 110:6, Mishneh Berurah
110:28, Aruch Hashulchan 110:14, Kaf Hachaim 110:51 -- but NOT the Chazon
Ish (Orchos Rabenu 1:61).
In addition, I recall learning of certain situations where it is
recommended that one should say tefilas haderech, but omitting the chasima
at the end. But if it's not a bracha at all even WITH the chasima, then
what is gained by leaving it out?
I suspect that I do not appreciate or understand the meaning of "as a tefillah and not as a bracha".
Akiva Miller
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Message: 13
From: Micha Berger
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 22:48:10 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Could a New Gadget Change Shabbat Observance -
On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 10:59:18AM -0400, Micha Berger wrote:
: On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 09:44:04AM -0400, Prof. Levine via Avodah wrote:
: : From http://tinyurl.com/njr5j7a
:
: :> List of leading rabbis endorse 'Kosherswitch' to allow lights on
: :> Shabbat. High-voltage project could send a current through Jewish
: :> world.
RGS just posted
http://www.torahmusings.com/2015/04/will-the-kosher-switch-bring-ma
shiach-2
which also links to his earlier
http://www.torahmusings.com/2011/09/in-defense-of-the-kosher-switch
....
: As you can read on Zomet's site, R Neuwirth permits the wheelchair only
: because the issue is basic mobility. KosherSwitch.com shows you that that
: RYN signed on a "me too" to R' Pinchas Zabihi's haskamah. I have a notion
: that once things are clarified, the truth is more somewhere in between.
Actually, RGS determined that R Neuwirth didn't give his approval of
the Kosher Switch outide of special circumstances.
RGS writes:
> The Kosher Switch adds uncertainty to the Gerama Switch. Every time the
> device is supposed to send a light impulse, it calculates a random number
> below 100 and only sends the impulse if the number passes a threshold
> (usually over 50).
However, there is a random element to Machon Zomet's switch too.
Again, I do not see anything in the patent that makes this switch any
less a simple case of gerama than Machon Zomet's switch. (In fact,
R' Rosen of Zomet checked the posqim cited on KosherSwitch.com
*because* he saw no reason why they would allow the Kosher Switch
for general use and not Zomet's Grama Switch.)
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Today is the 10th day, which is
mi...@aishdas.org 1 week and 3 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org Tifferes sheb'Gevurah: When does strict
Fax: (270) 514-1507 judgment bring balance and harmony?
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Message: 14
From: Kenneth Miller
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 02:26:43 GMT
Subject: Re: [Avodah] RYBS's Talk on Hafkaas Kiddushin, Talmud Torah
R' Joseph Kaplan asked:
> "We must not tamper, not only with the halachos, but even with
> the chazakos, for the chazakos of which chazal spoke rest not
> upon transient psychological behavioral patterns, but upon
> permanent ontological principles rooted in the very depth of
> the human personality, in the metaphysical human personality,
> which is as changeless as the heavens above."
>
> Can anybody explain what this really means? That is, explain it
> to someone who doesn?t use the word "ontological" in his/her
> normal speech. I have read it many many times but I still
> don?t understand what the Rav is saying.
This is how I understand it:
Just as a leopard cannot change its spots, and just as Shabbos comes each
week whether society accepts it or not, so too, there are certain elements
of the human condition which Chazal have identified as inherent and
unchanging, not subject to variation by time, place, or culture.
Or something like that. At any rate, one can agree or disagree about
whether this assertion is true, and even among those who agree with it,
there might be discussion of exactly which chazakos are unchanging and
which are variable. Still, his point is that there are indeed some
UNchanging aspects.
Akiva Miller
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Message: 15
From: Prof. Levine
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 05:07:57 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Rabbi Noach Isaac Oelbaum's Position on the Kosher
Rabbi Oelbaum has asked that his son's comment on YeshivaWorld
regarding Rav Oelbaum's position on kosher switch be publicized.
Rabbi Noach Isaac Oelbaum's true position on kosher switch
I regret that my father's position on the kosher switch was
misrepresented by stating that he endorses it l'maaseh . His position
is that there are 2 aspects in hilchos shabbos, one is issur melacha
and then there is zilzul shabbos. My father's opinion is that there
is no issur melacha or chilul shabbos. However , there is a concern
about zilzul shabbos as he stated clearly on the video. Before it is
used one should ask a shaila from his rav.
Moshe Oelbaum
Son of Rabbi N I Oelbaum
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A list of common acronyms is available at
http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/acronyms.cgi
(They are also visible in the web archive copy of each digest.)