Avodah Mailing List

Volume 33: Number 98

Tue, 14 Jul 2015

• 1. reciting a shehechiyanu when performing a mitzvah for the first time (M Cohen)
• 2. Re: ..v'imru amen (Kenneth Miller)
• 3. Re: ..v'imru amen (Zev Sero)
• 4. Kiddush L'vana (was "Kaddish Yasom") (Michael Poppers)
• 5. Re: Pinchas (Meir Shinnar)
• 6. Re: De-Chokifying Arayos (including MZ) (Meir Shinnar)
• 7. Wine left out (Ben Waxman)
• 8. Re: Wine left out (Zev Sero)
• 9. Re: Wine left out (Ben Waxman)
• 10. Re: Wine left out (Micha Berger)
• 11. Re: Wine left out (Zev Sero)
• 12. Timely Notes for the Summer (Prof. Levine)

http://tinyurl.com/o6rxcdf

 

according to those that say you do NOT recite a shehechiyanu when performing
a mitzvah for the first time (ie bar mitzvah),

why is it different than all the places where we DO recite a shehechiyanu
when performing a mitzvah not done in a long time?

(ie lulav, shofar, megila, etc)

 

Thanks, mc

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20150710/c1ac067d/attachment-0001.htm>

I wrote:

> The same question applies to the V'imru Amen which is near the end
> of Birkas Hamazon.

R' Zev Sero responded:

> Not really, because it's supposed to be said aloud by one person,
> with the others only answering amen.   It's only relatively
> recently that we've started each benching for ourselves, even
> when there's a zimun.

But we've *always* benched as individuals when there *isn't* a zimun.

But, for the sake of argument, let's suppose that originally, Oseh Shalom
was part of benching only when a zimun was present, and then for some
reason came to be said even by individuals. If that is indeed what
happened, I can't help but speculate that there was an even earlier time,
when benching with a zimun would include Oseh Shalom at that point, but
benching with a *minyan* would include Kaddish at that point!

Akiva Miller
____________________________________________________________
Old School Yearbook Pics
View Class Yearbooks Online Free. Search by School & Year. Look Now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/55a02add2581a2add0f3dst01vuc

On 07/10/2015 04:27 PM, Kenneth Miller via Avodah wrote:
>> >Not really, because it's supposed to be said aloud by one person,
>> >with the others only answering amen.   It's only relatively
>> >recently that we've started each benching for ourselves, even
>> >when there's a zimun.

> But we've*always*  benched as individuals when there*isn't*  a zimun.

Benching is designed for a zimun.   It's normal to eat in a group.  But even
when there were only two eating, or when a family ate together, I think the
usual thing was for one person to bench and the other person (or the wife
and children) to listen and say amen.

-- 
Zev Sero               I have a right to stand on my own defence, if you
z...@sero.name          intend to commit felony...if a robber meets me in
                        the street and commands me to surrender my purse,
                        I have a right to kill him without asking questions
                                               -- John Adams

In Avodah v33n97, I wrote:
> As for Kiddush L'vana (KL), indeed Minhag Ashk'naz did not include
"Aleinu" -- as was noted, the learning/reading of chapters of T'hilim at
the end of KL...was followed by Qaddish...-- and KL not being a *t'filas
tzibbur* does not impact upon the saying of Qaddish.... <
Just wanted to add that
(a) For the record, I don't recall Qaddish being said at the end of KL at
KAJ/"Breuer's" (and the MMA Siddur Tefilas Yeshurun instructs not to say
either "Aleinu" or Qaddish at the end of Bircas haL'vana), even when there
was evidently more than a quorum of men (gathered to be *m'qabeil p'nei
haShchina b'rov-am*) on the front steps or sidewalk of the Shul -- whether
or not Qaddish should be said (and what the precise parameters are) in that
circumstance (not a *t'filas tzibbur*; not in a *maqom t'fila*) was not
central to the overall points I was trying to make; and
(b) for consistency, it's QL, not KL :).

All the best from
*Michael Poppers* * Elizabeth, NJ, USA
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20150712/bfbf58db/attachment-0001.htm>

>
>
> BTW, my grandfather a"h was named Pinechas after this week's sedra,
> his bar mitzvah parashah. When it was time to name my oldest, I checked
> with my uncle how his name appeared on their kesuvah, as their mesader
> qiddushin was a key rav in my grandfather's life. (R/Dr Mirsky zt"l met
> two teenage boys coming off the boat and took them under his wing. My
> grandfather and great-uncle then earned enough to bribe the rest of the
> family's way out of Litta before the Nazis came to power.)
>
> Anyway, it seems R/Dr Mirsky held my grandfather's name was Pinechas,
> pei-yud-nun-ches-samekh, as it is spelled in the chumash (ignoring the
> size of the yud as usually written in the beginning of the parashah).
> And thus the sheva is na, Pinechas - not Pinchas.
>
> If you want to make a derashah out of a Mitzri name, it's Pi Nachas,
> not Pen Chas.
>
> Reason for this tangent... I would have expected "Gushies" to get the
> sheva in the parashah name right. After all, they have the patach under
> the reish in Parashat.
>
> Way behind in reading. However, Aharon Ben Asher, in Dikduke Hate'amim,
specifically lists the sheva in Pinchas (with a yud) as being a sheva nach,
so the "Gushies" have on whom to rely..

Meir Shinnar
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20150712/44832ce0/attachment-0001.htm>

> On Sun, Jul 05, 2015 at 05:20:08PM -0500, Lisa Liel wrote:
> : On 7/3/2015 5:16 PM, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> :> Let me take a step toward de-chokifying arayos.
>
> : Why?  I mean, you can always find reasons to turn something into a
> : moral issue.  But why do you want to impose that on the halakha?  Is
> : the purpose to make things even worse?
>
> As I quoted from RAK, because they classically were not considered
> chuqim. Until our contemporaries took the issue from sexual morality
> to sexual ethics, these truths were considered self-evident. It's the
> choqification of dinei arayos that's inauthentic.
>
> In any case, since one doesn't pasqen from taamei hamitzvos, the din
> is the same either way. Nothhing in such exploration can "make things
> even worse".
>
> In Shmona prakim, the rambam seems to take the opposite view - trying to
reconcile the view that having a desire to sin is a sign of moral failing,
and that the overcoming of desire is a sign o f greatness - he argues that
to desire to sin is problematic in hamefursamot - but NOT in those
forbidden only for religious reasons - and he specifically applies that to
arayot - and needs to apply it to arayot, because the sugyot that deal with
kol hagadol mechavero yitzro gadol  mimenu - specifically apply to arayot.
One could argue whether the arayot the rambam means refers to all dine
arayot, or only to a subset (excluding mishkav zachar), although not sure
on what basis - but clearly the rambam here insists that arayot are NOT
self evident or even mefursamot
Meir Shinnar
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20150712/58040fd4/attachment-0001.htm>

In SA OH 272:1 the Mechabeir writes that one shouldn't use wine left out 
for kiddush (or any type of mitzvah adds the Aruch HaShulchan). The 
problem isn't gi'loi'im but the pasuk in Malachi 1:8 which teaches us 
not to use Grade B products for mitzvot.  The assumption is that wine 
left out goes bad (or gets worse) and therefore it can't be used for 
qiddush.

My question is what does one do if you thinking allowing wine to breath 
for hours improves the taste? That's been my experience for years. If I 
open a bottle Friday evening, the wine definitely tastes better Saturday 
morning.

Ben

On 07/13/2015 02:10 PM, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
> In SA OH 272:1 the Mechabeir writes that one shouldn't use wine left
> out for kiddush (or any type of mitzvah adds the Aruch HaShulchan).
> The problem isn't gi'loi'im but the pasuk in Malachi 1:8 which teaches
> us not to use Grade B products for mitzvot.  The assumption is that
> wine left out goes bad (or gets worse) and therefore it can't be used
> for qiddush.
>
> My question is what does one do if you thinking allowing wine to
> breath for hours improves the taste? That's been my experience for
> years. If I open a bottle Friday evening, the wine definitely tastes
> better Saturday morning.


It depends what kind of wine.  Some wines definitely improve with a
few hours' breathing.  The criterion is "hakriveihu no lefechasecho";
*would* you serve this to an honoured guest who is used to drinking
quality wine?  If it's a wine that needs the time to aerate then you
certainly would, and in fact you wouldn't think of serving it to him
*without* that time.  OTOH this would preclude making kiddush at all
on Manishewitz, no matter how "fresh" it is.


-- 
Zev Sero               I have a right to stand on my own defence, if you
z...@sero.name          intend to commit felony...if a robber meets me in
                        the street and commands me to surrender my purse,
                        I have a right to kill him without asking questions
                                               -- John Adams

My question to this is why is it that the Shulchan Aruch, MB and others 
take it as a given that leaving wine out worsens the taste? Did they not 
know that allowing wine to breath improves the taste, at least for a 
decent red wine (which is the type of wine they think we should be 
drinking)?

Ben

On 7/13/2015 9:14 PM, Zev Sero wrote:
> It depends what kind of wine.  Some wines definitely improve with a
> few hours' breathing.  The criterion is "hakriveihu no lefechasecho";
> *would* you serve this to an honoured guest who is used to drinking
> quality wine? 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avod
ah-aishdas.org/attachments/20150714/93ab3569/attachment-0001.htm>

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 05:18:41AM +0200, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
: My question to this is why is it that the Shulchan Aruch, MB and
: others take it as a given that leaving wine out worsens the taste?

Because Shapiro's wine is "So thick you could cut it with a knife"
as that billboard we'd pass driving to Boro Park used to advertise.

Whereas you're talkng about a finer wine as vitners and frenchmen
measure.

Different products with totally different definitions of what is
"good".

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

On 07/13/2015 11:18 PM, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
> My question to this is why is it that the Shulchan Aruch, MB and
> others take it as a given that leaving wine out worsens the taste?
> Did they not know that allowing wine to breath improves the taste, at
> least for a decent red wine (which is the type of wine they think we
> should be drinking)?

First of all, most good wines shouldn't breathe for very long.

Second, their wine was generally pretty awful by our standards;
bad enough that it needed watering to make it palatable.   They
used wild yeast, they had no pasteurization, and it was all they
could do to stop it all turning into vinegar.  I wonder how much
damage could exposure possibly do to wine that bad, but I seriously
doubt it could improve it.

-- 
Zev Sero               I have a right to stand on my own defence, if you
z...@sero.name          intend to commit felony...if a robber meets me in
                        the street and commands me to surrender my purse,
                        I have a right to kill him without asking questions
                                               -- John Adams

The following is from an article by Rav Dr. 
Joseph Breuer,  ZT"L,  that appeared in the Mitteilungen, Vol. 2, June 1941

Timely Notes for the Summer

Can the heat of summer be termed ?oppressive?? That is surely
something that is individual. If we think of the terribly oppressive
times a large number of our brethren are going through, we will
gladly tolerate the discomforts of summer and rather bless our
good fortune to be spared such pain.

Many of our newly immigrated brothers and sisters are struggling
with heavy economic burdens, and only the few can afford
the much desired relaxing rest. We are pleased for those who can
afford a vacation and expect that they will carefully select, as far as
the trustworthiness of its kashrus, the place where they plan to
spend their vacation. Obviously, they will not want to take a vacation
from the ?yoke of the Law.? They want to return home, hale
and hearty, and not with a feeling of unease for having risked their
moral values in exchange for physical wellbeing.

The heat of summer calls for changes in clothing and appearance.
The conscientious Jew will carefully keep to certain limits,
which he will not overstep. Our Divine Law cautions us to have a
sense of shame, and that applies to summer as well.

The Jewish custom ?according to the Talmud ?requires men
and boys to cover their heads outdoors. God gave the first garment
to man when he forfeited his special standing by disregarding the
Will of God.Modest covering of his body is to be a steady reminder
of the higher calling of man. Jewish men were given the adornment
of tzitzis to admonish them to wear their clothes as proper Jews.
Even in the summer heat, our requirements for covering can easily
be heeded with lighter clothing. Comfort will not cause us to shirk
our duty. A soldier?s helmet is uncomfortably heavy, but he wears
it because it is required; God?s requirement should not be heeded?

As for the Jewish woman, Jewish law requires her to cover her
hair. The true Jewish woman will proudly do so, for it is a sign of
her willingness to adhere to God?s Will as the guide in her life. A
woman unworthy of this sign will have it removed forcibly by the
priest (Bemidbar 5:18). Covering one?s hair is merely a sign if a
woman does not conduct herself otherwise in the properly Jewish
manner. Similarly, there are Jewish men who bear the Milah-sign on
their bodies but sully their bodies in other ways.

Not covering one?s hair is probably ? we are sorry to say ? a
matter of ignorance, and perhaps such a Jewish woman was not
brought up to understand the importance of covering her hair.
Many women may carefully observe their Jewish duties in other
areas, and we would so much like to adorn them with this special
crown also. For the fact remains: covering of the hair for the Jewish
woman is a must.

The proud Jewish woman will conduct herself Jewishly in her
clothing and in covering her hair. The word Tznius is a Jewish
concept that is hard to translate exactly. It does not only denote a
?quietly humble way of living? (Michah 6:8), but everything else
that our people has so valued and esteemed in their Jewish women
at all times.
?quietly humble way of living? (Michah 6:8), but everything else
that our people has so valued and esteemed in their Jewish women
at all times.

YL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-ai
shdas.org/attachments/20150714/633e1125/attachment.htm>

------------------------------



_______________________________________________
Avodah mailing list
Avo...@lists.aishdas.org
http://www.aishdas.org/avodah
http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org


------------------------------


**************************************

Send Avodah mailing list submissions to
	avodah@lists.aishdas.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	avodah-request@lists.aishdas.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	avodah-owner@lists.aishdas.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Avodah digest..."


A list of common acronyms is available at
        http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/acronyms.cgi
(They are also visible in the web archive copy of each digest.)