Avodah Mailing List

Volume 34: Number 24

Wed, 02 Mar 2016

• 1. adblockers (saul newman)
• 2. tenets of the Faith (saul newman)
• 3. Re: ad blockers (Micha Berger)
• 4. Re: ad blockers (Micha Berger)
• 5. atchalta d'geula (Micha Berger)
• 6. Re: tenets of the Faith (Lisa Liel)
• 7. Re: What Do French Jews Do On Shabbath? (Arie Folger)
• 8. Re: What Do French Jews Do On Shabbath? (Zev Sero)
• 9. Audio: Rav Mordechai Gifter: "Diversity In Orthodoxy" And The Greatness Of MaRan HaRav Shach (Prof. Levine)

>>>>The website provides free content, but it isn't
really totally free.

----but  in reality , the website is trying to have it both ways .   they
don't charge for their content but hope to make money another way.  if they
REALLY wanted to make money , they would charge subscriber fees.   they
would then have a really dedicated audience.   but mistama,  they would
rather have a much larger much cheaper audience.    having made that
choice,  they then try and guilt me with their business model.... it's akin
to the comeon with the free vacation to the timeshare--where you have to
sit thru the presentation;  except  i haven't costed the website anything
-i have just prevented them from making a nickel off of me...
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if someone comes to beis din  and  says 'i want to convert to judaism, but
do not  believe in sefirot, gilgulim, klipa etc  ie  kabbalistic principles
  ----  will  he  be accepted ,  or are those fundamental dogma that makes
one not a jew if one doesn't believe in them ?
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Instinctively, I would have framed this question in terms of
a- copyright in halakhah
plus
b- giving reshus al tenai.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

Instinctively, I would have framed this question in terms of
a- copyright in halakhah
plus
b- giving reshus al tenai.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 01:06:28PM -0800, saul newman via Areivim wrote:
: on the origins of the phrase ---
: http://torasaba.blogspot.com/2016/02/blog-post.html

I found a Torah source, so I'm taking it here.

I didn't think that such a remote metaphoric usage was the likely origin.
So I hit Bar Ilan's web version of their CD, and got Megillah 17b. The
the last gemara describes 7 years, and on motza'ei shevi'is, Ben David
comes. And then, "milchamah namid atchalta dege'ulah hee" -- although
admittedly that has ge'ulah in hebrew, not ge'ulasa in Aramaic. Get
people trying to say the whole thing in a single language, and "atachalta
dege'ulasa" seems inevitable.

-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             "'When Adar enters, we increase our joy'
mi...@aishdas.org         'Joy is nothing but Torah.'
http://www.aishdas.org    'And whoever does more, he is praiseworthy.'"
Fax: (270) 514-1507                     - Rav Dovid Lifshitz zt"l

Frankly, I think anyone who says "I want to convert to Judaism but", 
regardless of what comes after the "but", should be shown the door.

Unfortunately, that's probably not the halakha.

Lisa

On 2/29/2016 5:44 PM, saul newman via Avodah wrote:
> if someone comes to beis din  and  says 'i want to convert to judaism, 
> but do not  believe in sefirot, gilgulim, klipa etc  ie  kabbalistic 
> principles   ----  will  he  be accepted ,  or are those fundamental 
> dogma that makes one not a jew if one doesn't believe in them ?
>

R'JF Shachter wrote:
> Thus it was not even technically amira l'nokhri
> -- although I am grateful to R' Arie Folger for giving me the psaq din
> (later in v34n20, not quoted above) that amira l'nokhri would be
> permitted

I'd like to explain my reasoning: amira le'aqum may be permitted,
especially when you do the amira before Shabbat, rather than on Shabbat,
bemmaqom mitsva and bemmakom tzaar. Not being able to get home is
considered to be a great source of tzaar, especially when you need to go to
sleep. A major violation of 'oneg Shabbat. And being stuck in a Parisian
apartment, which is usually smaller than, say, an apartment in Grenoble, is
like sitting Shiva on Shabbat, and of course you miss minyan.

Poskim I had consulted with in the past ruled that these are indeed
situations permitting amira le'akum. Preferably always by asking ahead of
time.

> Respectfully, you are not in France, and I am.

Actually, I do live in France, even though the congregations I serve are in
Germany.

And I have seen already many years the problems you describe. One of the
problems is that courts have not been friendly. The judiciary in France is
having a lot of trouble wrapping its heads around the idea that Shabbat is
sacrosanct. So tenants and even home owners have lost court cases against
building managements.

Kol tuv,
-- 
Arie Folger,
Recent blog posts on http://rabbifolger.net/

* Koscheres Geld (Podcast)
<http://rabbifolger.net/2016/02/15/koscheres-geld-podcast/>

* Kennt die Existenz nur den Chaos? G?ttliches Vorsehen im J?dischen
Gedankengut (Podcast)
<http://rabbifolger.net/
2016/02/14/kennt-die-existenz-nur-den-chaos-gttliches-vorsehen-im-judischen
-gedankengut-podcast/>

* Halacha zum Wochenabschnitt: Baruch Hu uWaruch Schemo
<http://rabbifolger.net/2016/02/11/halacha-zum-wochenabs
chnitt-baruch-hu-uwaruch-schemo/>

* Is there Order to the World? Providence in Jewish Thought
<http://rabbifolger.net/2016/02/09/is-there-order-to
-the-world-providence-in-jewish-thought/>

* What is Modern Orthodoxy (from a radio segment)
<http://rabbifolger.net/2016/02/08/what-is-modern-orthodoxy-fro
m-a-radio-segment/>

<http://rabbifolger.net/2016/01/28/wir-missionieren-nicht-aber-warum-
nicht/>
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On 02/28/2016 10:25 PM, via Avodah wrote:
> You cannot use the same key for both
> purposes, because, even though the courtyard is a carmelith, and the
> public areas of my apartment building are a carmelith (the apartments
> are separately and privately owned), they are not the same carmelith,
> they are jointly owned by different sets of people.

I meant to reply to your first post, because I was struck by your use
of "carmelith" for what seems clearly not one.  Both the courtyard and
the building are jointly-owned reshuyoth hayachid, not carmeliyoth.
Carrying in both is assur mid'rabanan, but they are not the same thing.

Next point: if there are no other Jews in the building, or even if there
are but they don't believe in torath eruv, then you are permitted to
carry in the building.  And if you are the only orthodox Jew in all
the buildings that share the courtyard then you can carry there too.

Assuming that you are not, it shouldn't be that difficult to find a
board or management member who represents all the owners of the relevant
space, and rent the premises for the purpose of making an eruv.


> Whether you can trust the kashruth of someone who
> has no problem tapping an electronic code on Shabbath when she needs
> to, and can give no advice to someone for whom that is a problem, is a
> separate question worthy of its own Avodah discussion.  I believe that
> you can, under certain circumstances, but I am willing to be convinced
> otherwise.

It seems to me that this can be compared to the case of the Kuthi,
who is definitely not orthodox.  Although he doesn't believe in lifnei
iver, to the extent that you can't trust him when he tells you something
is kosher, nevertheless if he eats something himself you can trust that
it's kosher, and can eat it too.  Thus we see that neither full orthodoxy
nor full shmirat hamitzvot are necessary for there to be a ne'emanut in
kashrut.  It's enough that he both takes kashrut seriously, and knows how
to keep it.


> After I had been going there
> for three or four weeks, some people invited me for Shabbath, but I
> had to decline, telling them that as far as I could tell, it was
> impossible to leave my apartment building on Shabbath.  Not a single
> person there had any advice on how to solve that problem.

Did you ask how they solve it?


-- 
Zev Sero               All around myself I will wave the green willow
z...@sero.name          The myrtle and the palm and the citron for a week
                And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm doing that
                I'll say "It's a Jewish thing; if you have a few minutes
                I'll explain it to you".

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpm_-3eI0oQ

Rav Gifter, "I am not an Orthodox Jew."

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