Volume 34: Number 81
Wed, 20 Jul 2016
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: via Avodah
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 00:22:13 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Tevilas Keilim from OU kosher halacha yomis
From: "Professor L. Levine via Avodah" <avo...@lists.aishdas.org>
Q. What is the mitzvah of tevilas keilim (immersing utensils in a mikvah)?
A. ....... If a mikvah is not available, Rav Belsky, zt"l ruled that one
may immerse the utensils in a lake, provided that it has not rained in the
last few days.
>>>>
Can someone explain what is the problem with rain? Thank you.
--Toby Katz
t6...@aol.com
..
=============
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Message: 2
From: Saul Mashbaum
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 14:24:32 +0300
Subject: [Avodah] Lions
RET notes that the lioness does most of the hunting for the lion family.
I understand that while this is true, the male lion has a very
important role in the family or group (pride). The male lions in the
group protect its territory from hostile elements (often other
lions). The lion 'couple' divides up responsibilites such that the
female is the (main) hunter, and the male is the fighter. Indeed there
may be much more hunting than fighing that goes on, but this seems to
the lions to be an equitable arrangement. So it is the lion the
fighter, not the lion the hunter, which is the symbol of courage, and
this aspect makes the lion the 'king of the beasts'.
Saul Mashbaum
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Message: 3
From: Ezra Chwat
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 08:08:13 +0000
Subject: Re: [Avodah] manuscript of the Rambam
Mishneh Torah manuscripts. Firstly most of the authoritative manuscript
versions of Mishneh Torah, available for those without experience in
reading manuscripts in Rav Shilat's series:
http://aleph.nli.org.il:80/F/?func=direct&doc_number=003862884
And in side by side with the common printed edition, here:
http://aleph.nli.org.il:80/F/?func=direct&doc_number=002392254
Soon the Academy of Hebrew language will be uploading their transcripts
copies of the authoritative manuscripts to their site Maagarim:
http://maagarim.hebrew-academy.org.il/
"Authoritative" means a copy authorized by the author, many of which were
available and cited in Kesef Mishneh, Migal 'Oz and other sources. Some
of these manuscripts (or relatives) are available in microfilm or online.
In the introduction, list of mitzvoth, and books Mada' and Ahavah,
the authorized version bears the signature of the Rambam, which renders
every other text witness, obsolete and meaningless. (so you can put your
Frankel in genizah). It's online here:
http://maimonides.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/viewer/
Nashim, the authoritative copy, the only text witness
that reflects the final version (about this see here:
http://imhm.blogspot.co.il/2013/02/blog-post_28.html )
is Oxford 594 info here:
http://aleph.nli.org.il:80/F/?func=direct&doc_number=000089732
the viewer is temporarily down.
In Hafla'ah there's Oxford 596, see the link to the online access at
the bottom of this info page :
http://aleph.nli.org.il:80/F/?func=direct&doc_number=000089734
So too Zra'im Oxford 598 here:
http://aleph.nli.org.il:80/F/?func=direct&doc_number=000089736
;'Avodah-Qorbanot Oxford 602. Here:
http://aleph.nli.org.il:80/F/?func=direct&doc_number=000089740
Taharah in BL 496:
http://aleph.nli.org.il:80/F/?func=direct&doc_number=000121170
Qinyan : Oxford 611
http://aleph.nli.org.il:80/F/?func=direct&doc_number=000089753
Mishpatim: Escorial G III 2: (temporarily limited access)
http://aleph.nli.org.il:80/F/?func=direct&doc_number=000123697
Shoftim: Oxford 613:
http://aleph.nli.org.il:80/F/?func=direct&doc_number=000089755
Dr. Ezra Chwat
Department of Manuscripts
The National Library of Israel, Jerusalem
Edmond J. Safra Campus,?Givat Ram,
P.O. Box 39105, Jerusalem 9139002
ezra.ch...@nli.org.il | www.nli.org.il
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Message: 4
From: Micha Berger
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 11:53:46 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Chukas Para Aduma
On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 12:46:01PM -0400, Cantor Wolberg via Avodah wrote:
: A question asked is how can something tamei purify and so the paradox
: continues.
: For what it's worth, I've always given the example of X-Rays.
: Over exposure to X-Rays can cause the very thing X-Rays are used for
: to cure.
Which is a pretty good mashal for RSRH's take on the subject.
<https://books.google.com/books?id=LOqbqkbO1R4C&;lpg=PA438&pg=PA438> See
pg 438, which speaks in terms of medicine vs bread. Everyone needs bread,
but someone healthy shouldn't be taking medicine he doesn't need.
His talk about "someone's mind had been infected by thoughts prompted by
a coprse" vs someone whose mine hadn't suggested a different mashal to me.
When I was a kid, there was a "thing" where you would bet someone they
would be thinking about a pink elephant 5 sec from now. Now, for normal
people who otherwise never would have thought about pink elephants,
you just planted the idea in their head and made the thought inevitable.
However, if you just hapened to been obsessing on the subject until
then, perhaps the bet will be just what it takes to get you to fight
the obsession.
Or think of the difference in the meaning of the sentence:
Don't believe what everyone is saying, your partners isn't embezzeling
funds from the business.
When someone really had heard this rumor vs if they were first hearing this
allegation for the first time when you say it.
The parah adumah breaks that focusing attention on man-as-mammal. But
if someone didn't already have that focus, it needlessly raises that topic.
The problem I have with these meshalim are that they explain too much. The
only person who becomes tamei is someone is someone who carries enough
ashes to be able to sprinkle them.
Now if *that* person "took the medicine", was over-exposed to X-rays, or
had thoughts of pink elephants or embezzling business partners, wouldn't
the person who actually does the sprinkling all-the-more-so be impacted?
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger Spirituality is like a bird: if you tighten
mi...@aishdas.org your grip on it, it chokes; slacken your grip,
http://www.aishdas.org and it flies away.
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - Rav Yisrael Salanter
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Message: 5
From: Ilana Elzufon
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 11:15:32 +0300
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Lions
On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 2:24 PM, Saul Mashbaum via Avodah <
avo...@lists.aishdas.org> wrote:
> RET notes that the lioness does most of the hunting for the lion family.
Rav Dr Natan Slifkin has pointed out that this depends on the lions'
habitat. In the savannah, female lions do most of the hunting. (If I recall
correctly, because the open area is more conducive to hunting as a group.)
In more forested areas (like ancient Eretz Yisrael), male lions do more of
the hunting, using an ambush technique that works better with the thick
cover of a forest than in relatively open savannah. Thus various references
in Tanach to hunting by male lions.
This is in his Encyclopedia and somewhere on his blog, but I don't have
time to look for it.
Ilana
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Message: 6
From: Akiva Miller
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 06:02:59 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Tevilas Keilim from OU kosher halacha yomis
R' Yitzchok Levine quoted from the "OU Kosher Halacha Yomis":
> Rav Belsky, zt"l ruled that one may immerse the utensils in a lake,
provided that it has not rained in the last few days.
I was hoping that if I went to the source, there would be additional
information and/or sources. But there's not. You can find this yourself by
going to https://oukosher.org/halacha-yomis/ and entering "lake" or
"rained" in the Search box there.
Here's my question: Why would recent rain disqualify a mikveh? Given that a
mikveh is a collection of rainwater, I would imagine that rain is a *good*
thing for a mikveh.
(My apologies if this is a very basic halacha. Mikveh is one of the many
areas that I know very little about.)
advTHANKSance!
Akiva Miller
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Message: 7
From: Micha Berger
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 06:32:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Tevilas Keilim from OU kosher halacha yomis
On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 06:02:59AM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
: Here's my question: Why would recent rain disqualify a mikveh? Given that a
: mikveh is a collection of rainwater, I would imagine that rain is a *good*
: thing for a mikveh.
A lake isn't a miqvah, it's a be'eir mayim chayim. Or would be, if you
weren't using rainwater.
A miqvah cannot have flowing water.
Therefore, if a lake has an outlet and identifiable rain water, it would
neither be a miqvah nor a be'eir.
(Just guessing.)
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger I long to accomplish a great and noble task,
mi...@aishdas.org but it is my chief duty to accomplish small
http://www.aishdas.org tasks as if they were great and noble.
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - Helen Keller
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Message: 8
From: Professor L. Levine
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 13:28:27 +0000
Subject: [Avodah] Do aluminum foil and disposable aluminum pans
From the OU Kosher Halacha Yomis.
Q. Do aluminum foil and disposable aluminum pans require tevilas keilim (immersion in a mikvah) before they can be used?
A. Although we have seen that, in general, utensils made from aluminum do
require tevilas keilim (albeit only as a rabbinic requirement) many poskim
hold that there is no requirement for disposable utensils such as aluminum
foil and aluminum pans. Minchas Yitzchak (5:32) writes that disposable
utensils do not require tevilah. Even though ordinary utensils cannot be
used even once without toiveling, a utensil that can only be used once is
not considered a utensil at all and is therefore exempt. Igros Moshe (Yoreh
De'ah 3:23) goes even further, and says that even if the pan can be reused
another one or two times before having to be thrown away, it is still
viewed as being disposable and does not require tevilah. Nevertheless, some
have the custom to toivel aluminum pans. Everyone should follow their
custom. There is no basis in Halacha for the common misconception that
non-disposable utensils may be used once without immersion in a mikvah.
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Message: 9
From: Eli Turkel
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 14:52:26 +0300
Subject: [Avodah] incorrect learning of Torah
The gemara BM 109 says that a torah teacher can be fired without warning if
he makes mistakes because it cannot be corrected.
Tosafot (top of 109b) explain that the time wasted learning incorrect
pshat can never be recovered.
The inference from Tosafot is that if one labors learning Torah but reaches
an incorrect conclusion that it is not considered learning Torah
--
Eli Turkel
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Message: 10
From: Cantor Wolberg
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 10:19:15 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Prophecy
I quote the following (excerpted) from Oxford Jewish Thought - Essays by
RabbiEli Brackman - Maimonides in Oxford: A commentary on the Oxford
Manuscript of the Mishne Torah
" A known fact regarding Maimonides? legal code of Mishneh Torah is the fact that it does not contain sources.
Indeed, Maimonides received criticism for this and he desired to rewrite the work with all the sources but was unable
to fulfil this ambition due to time constraints.? ibidem: ",,,as he does not usually quote sources for the decisions in his legal code.?
I find it odd that a gadol like Rambam would omit sources to back his decisions, etc.
The other quote regarding prophets:
". In Mishneh Torah, Yesodei Hatorah (10:4), it discusses a difference
between the substantiation of a prophet based on positive prophecy and
negative predictions.
The failure of the latter does not define him as a false prophet, while the failure of the former to materialise does define him as a false prophet.
The reason is because a negative prophecy can be annulled due to the fact that G-d is ?slow to anger, abundant in kindness, and forgiving of evil.
Thus, it is possible that they will repent and their sin will be forgiven,
as in the case of the people of Nineveh, or that retribution will be held
in abeyance,
as in the case of Hezekiah.? However a positive prophecy cannot be annulled
and thus its failure to materialize can be a cause for him to be condemned
a false prophet."
What I question is that according to the teaching if a prophet predicts a
negative prophecy and it doesn?t come true, it can be annulled due to a
compassionate God.
On the other hand, Rambam states a positive prophecy cannot be annulled and
thus its failure to materialize can be a cause for him to be condemned a
false prophet.
So if God will forgive those who have committed various sins thus annulling
a negative prophecy, why couldn?t the converse be possible ? namely, God
condemning those
who had been good and then turned to sin, thus annulling positive prophecy?
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Message: 11
From: Micha Berger
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 13:05:24 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Prophecy
On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 10:19:15AM -0400, Cantor Wolberg via Avodah wrote:
: So if God will forgive those who have committed various sins thus
: annulling a negative prophecy, why couldn't the converse be possible --
: namely, God condemning those
: who had been good and then turned to sin, thus annulling positive prophecy?
Realize that the main function of nevu'ah is mussar, not forecasting.
A Compassionate G-d could choose to warn people that if they stay on some
course, they are headed for calamity. And so, as soon as they veer from that
course, the calamity doesn't materialize.
But G-d doesn't hold out promises of good fortune before they are certain.
It serves no moral purpose, and is just cruel.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger It is our choices...that show what we truly are,
mi...@aishdas.org far more than our abilities.
http://www.aishdas.org - J. K. Rowling
Fax: (270) 514-1507
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Message: 12
From: Micha Berger
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 12:58:27 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] incorrect learning of Torah
On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 02:52:26PM +0300, Eli Turkel via Avodah wrote:
: Tosafot (top of 109b) explain that the time wasted learning incorrect
: pshat can never be recovered.
: The inference from Tosafot is that if one labors learning Torah but reaches
: an incorrect conclusion that it is not considered learning Torah
Beshogeig.
Perhaps also implied by the invocation of eilu va'eilu to explain why
learning shitas Beis Shammai is talmud Torah. If you were doing TT
even when learning a wrong shitah, why would it be so important to
point out that it's still divrei E-lokim Chaim, if not halakhah?
But it is possible that Tosafos just meant that compared to learning
correct peshat, learning a mistake is an inferior use of time.
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger You are where your thoughts are.
mi...@aishdas.org - Ramban, Igeres haQodesh, Ch. 5
http://www.aishdas.org
Fax: (270) 514-1507
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Message: 13
From: Eli Turkel
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 20:09:19 +0300
Subject: Re: [Avodah] incorrect learning of Torah
> I assume tosafot meant wrong pshat not just a shitah not accepted in final
> halacha
The only point I was making was that according to tosafot earnest trying by
an am haaretz is not learning Torah
--
Eli Turkel
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Message: 14
From: Micha Berger
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 14:48:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] incorrect learning of Torah
On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 08:09:19PM +0300, Eli Turkel wrote:
: The only point I was making was that according to tosafot earnest trying by
: an am haaretz is not learning Torah
Would you find it notable if I were to claim that an am haaretz sits down
in front of a Book of Mormon thinking it's kisvei qodesh, and earnestly
studies it, he is not fulfilling the mitzvah of talmud Torah?
That's different than an am haaretz who actually sits in front of an
actual sefer, studies it, and ends up with the wrong peshat. In this case,
he is studying Torah, but failing to learn it.
Tosafos is talking about a case where the student is being presented
false ideas by an incompitent melamed. Isn't that more similar to my
first scenario than my second -- albeit much less extreme quantitatively?
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger A person lives with himself for seventy years,
mi...@aishdas.org and after it is all over, he still does not
http://www.aishdas.org know himself.
Fax: (270) 514-1507 - Rav Yisrael Salanter
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Message: 15
From: Zev Sero
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2016 14:45:42 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Prophecy
On 07/20/2016 10:19 AM, Cantor Wolberg via Avodah wrote:
> I find it odd that a gadol like Rambam would omit sources to back his
> decisions, etc.
He saw no need for it. His goal was to write one simple, easy-to-read
work that anybody with sufficient intelligence could study and know the
whole Torah, without having to plow through the mishneh and gemara.
He had done all the work for the reader, and all the reader had to do was
trust him. If you didn't trust him then why were you bothering to read
it in the first place? It didn't occur to him at that point that he would
have to deal with challenges from other rabbis.
> So if God will forgive those who have committed various sins thus
> annulling a negative prophecy, why couldn?t the converse be possible
> ? namely, God condemning those who had been good and then turned to
> sin, thus annulling positive prophecy?
Because He gave us this test. He said if a navi says something will
happen and it doesn't, "That is a thing that Hashem didn't say, the
navi said it wickedly, do not fear him". And, through Bil`am, He
said "God is not a man that He should disappoint, or a human that He
should change His mind". However we know that He *does* change His
mind about bad decrees, both because we have numerous examples of Him
doing just that, and because two authentic nevi'im described Him as
one "Who *changes His mind* about bad things". Therefore His claim
that He doesn't must apply only to good prophecies.
(You missed this because the translator of the book you are reading
missed it too; to correctly translate something one must first understand
it, and he didn't.)
--
Zev Sero Meaningless combinations of words do not acquire
z...@sero.name meaning merely by appending them to the two other
words `God can'. Nonsense remains nonsense, even
when we talk it about God. -- C S Lewis
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