Avodah Mailing List

Volume 34: Number 100

Mon, 22 Aug 2016

• 1. The Bond that Ties Chazon and Nahamu Together (Cantor Wolberg)
• 2. Re: silk-screened sifrei torah (STAM) and megillot (Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer)
• 3. Re: The Bond that Ties Chazon and Nahamu Together (Micha Berger)
• 4. The takana of krias hatorah on Monday and Thursday (Marty Bluke)
• 5. Steam issuing from a dairy food .... (Rabbi Meir G. Rabi)
• 6. Kashrus - Microwave Ovens (Rabbi Meir G. Rabi)
• 7. Re: Kashrus - Microwave Ovens (Micha Berger)
• 8. Breaking a minyan into two (Ben Waxman)
• 9. How do we evaluate nezeq nowadays of a person? (Marty Bluke)
• 10. Re: How do we evaluate nezeq nowadays of a person? (Zev Sero)
• 11. Re: How do we evaluate nezeq nowadays of a person? (Marty Bluke)
• 12. Re: How do we evaluate nezeq nowadays of a person? (Zev Sero)
• 13. Re: How do we evaluate nezeq nowadays of a person? (Marty Bluke)
• 14. Re: How do we evaluate nezeq nowadays of a person? (Zev Sero)
• 15. Re: How do we evaluate nezeq nowadays of a person? (Marty Bluke)

R. Johanan said in the name of R. Simeon b. Yohai: "If Israel were to keep
two Sabbaths according to the laws thereof, they would be redeemed
immediately, for it is said, Thus saith the Lord of the eunuch that keep my
Sabbaths, which is followed by, even them will I bring to my holy mountain,
etc."

The question is asked why only two Sabbaths and does Shabbat really have
the power to reverse the lot of the Jewish people and usher in the era of
redemption. In response, a Chassidic Rebbe indicates that the two Sabbaths
refer to none other than Shabbat Chazon and Shabbat Nahamu. If we
sincerely embrace their message, we shall then transform the condition of Jewish existence. 

Shabbat Chazon recalls the pain and pogroms, etc., that we suffered and to
observe it is to remember the fallen glory of our past. In its very
observance lies the seed of Nahamu ? hope and victory.	Shabbat Nahamu is
the promise of rebirth and vindication. 
Mysteriously and miraculously Chazon gives birth to Nahamu. 

Interestingly (as a side) the Talmud (Bava Metzia 30b) asserts that the
Beit Hamikdash was destroyed because people stuck to the leter of the law
and did not penetrate the spirit of the law. 

May we all be comforted from our individual and national tragedies and live to see the Redemption.
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My inclination would be to pasken they are kosher. But it is radical.

KT, GS,

YGB

PS How long is the cycle of AhS yomi?


On 8/12/2016 1:53 PM, Micha Berger wrote:
>
>
> Leshitaso, I don't see why silk screening by hand, lesheim qedushas
> sefer Torah, would be a problem.
>
> -Micha
>

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 12:26:53PM -0400, Cantor Wolberg via Avodah wrote:
: Interestingly (as a side) the Talmud (Bava Metzia 30b) asserts that
: the Beit Hamikdash was destroyed because people stuck to the leter of
: the law and did not penetrate the spirit of the law.

This is not the only way to understand that gemara.

It could be that it was because people stuck to the letter of the
law without ever trying for any stretch goals. As RYBS often said,
"Halakhah is a floor, not a ceiling."

Admittedly, one can't know which way is "up", what direction to go
beyond the letter of the law -- or in rabbinic idiom, which direction
is further in from the borders of the legal (lifnim mishuras hadin) --
without getting some sense of taamei hamitzvah. The "experimental data"
of mitzvos are our strongest indicators of qedusha, tov and yosher
with which to implement "qedoshim tihyu", "vehasisa hayashar vehatov",
or hilkhos dei'or.

But it gives a behavioral / moral focus to their flaw rather than a
coginitive / theological one.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Live as if you were living already for the
mi...@aishdas.org        second time and as if you had acted the first
http://www.aishdas.org   time as wrongly as you are about to act now!
Fax: (270) 514-1507            - Victor Frankl, Man's search for Meaning

Todays daf (Bava Kama 82a) discusses the takanos of Ezra and one of the
takanas mentioned is that of reading the Torah on Mondays and Thursdays.
The Gemara says that the takana was made so that people would not go 3 days
without Torah based on the pasuk vayelchu shloshes yamim bamidbar vlo matzu
mayim.

I am having trouble understanding this takana. They didn't learn Torah in
the midbar? Without this takana people would just sit and waste the day and
not learn any Torah? In any case the original takana was either 1 person 3
pesukim or 3 people 1 pasuk each. This is not exactly a big dose of talmud
torah. What was the point of having them read a grand total of 3 pesukim?
Additionally didn't they say Krias Shema in the morning and at night, why
wouldn't that count as limud hatorah?
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The Rosh Paskens that steam will be Fleishig or Milchig as per the liquid
from which it emanates. Proof from Machshirim (2:1) - steam from water that
is Tomei (ritually impure) which condenses on the wall, is considered
Tomei.

The Shulchan Aruch (Yorah Dayah 92:8) quotes this ruling of the Rosh.
?Steam from milk which contacts and is absorbed in a meat vessel, renders
it non-Kosher.?

Three questions -
What connection is there between Tumah and Kashrus?
Kashrus depends on TaAm. Condensed Tamei water may remain Tamei but
condensed milk evaporative should need to have TaAm milk.

How do we understand the Halacha that permits LeChatChilah hanging meat to
dry above the stove where milk is being boiled?
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Steam is the great enemy of efficient microwave cooking.
Therefore all microwave ovens have fans to effectively vent all the steam
from the microwave cavity.
Proof - during cooking the door/window does not become fogged. Switch off
the oven, wait for 10 seconds then open the door, it will be covered in
condensation.

Here is another test - boil a large jug of water in the microwave for a
long time, lets say 15 minutes, [ensure there is enough water to last for
the duration] then open the door, reach inside and feel the walls of the
oven. They will not be warm but cool.

The tray/turntable may be warm/hot - that's from the heat of the hot water
being conducted to it.

So even if the steam is dairy or meaty, it hardly gets to the walls of the
microwave and what may get there is well less that YSoledes.

Best,

Meir G. Rabi
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On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 06:06:05PM +1000, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi via Avodah wrote:
: The tray/turntable may be warm/hot - that's from the heat of the hot water
: being conducted to it.

: So even if the steam is dairy or meaty, it hardly gets to the walls of the
: microwave and what may get there is well less that YSoledes.

So you're wondering why anyone would need kashering of anything but the
floor or turntable?

I do know the walls can be damp, even if we're not talking about enough
hevel to fog up the windows. And a small amount of liquid might be hot
when it hits, and cool immediately. I am not asserting, just suggesting
it be checked out.

Certainly after I kasher the office microwave, the walls are hot and
wet. But that's an unrealistically long run of entirely water -- the
stuff the waves work on.


I have my own hevel question... My company has a Keurig machine. Among
the cups they stocked was a hot chocolate I wouldn't drink. Well,
Keurig machines insert pins into the cup and the drink is being forced
out through that pin. If you are having tea after someone else's coffee,
it's not great tea. So I avoided using that machine. I got facilities to
keep one Keurig machine on our floor limited to K-Cups with hekhsheirim.
(I wasn't going to start with them about plain coffee or plain tea not
needing a hekhsher.)

But because of that taste issue, there is now a Flavia machine next to
the Keurig (And a Nespresso!) Flavia uses bags with a valve on top,
and the liguid falls straight from the bag into your cup. The only issue
I could see is the hevel from someone's treif drink. Which gets to the
question of how inclosed does something have to be in order for hevel
to be an issue?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

PS: Decades ago, R/Dr David Berger quipped in shul (roughly) that he
finally understood the famous line in Qoheles. Shelomo haMelekh spent most
of his day in the royal court, around politicians. It was on a day that
it all got to him that he wrote, "Hot air, hot air, it's all hot air!"
Did I say "a day"? Exasperation with all that hot air appears in the
book 36 times! <grin>

-- 
Micha Berger             "I think, therefore I am." - Renne Descartes
mi...@aishdas.org        "I am thought about, therefore I am -
http://www.aishdas.org   my existence depends upon the thought of a
Fax: (270) 514-1507      Supreme Being Who thinks me." - R' SR Hirsch

http://zomet.org.il/?CategoryID=160

Normally it is taken as a given that an avel has the right to daven from 
the amud.  Rav HaCohen addresses this point in tshuvah on breaking up a 
minyan so that two avelim can lead teffila (spoiler alert: he rules that 
if there is a minyan kavuah, the minyan shouldn't be broken into two).


Ben

The first mishna in hachovel states that if you knock someone's eye out
etc. you pay based on the difference in value that he would be sold on the
slave market with and without an eye. How would this work today when we
have no slave market? The shulchan aruch just quotes the din of the Gemara
as does the Aruch Hashulchan and even the Pischei Choshen that you evaluate
him as a slave. What would the din be today when we have no slave market?
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On 22/08/16 00:18, Marty Bluke via Avodah wrote:
> The first mishna in hachovel states that if you knock someone's eye
> out etc. you pay based on the difference in value that he would be
> sold on the slave market with and without an eye. How would this work
> today when we have no slave market? The shulchan aruch just quotes
> the din of the Gemara as does the Aruch Hashulchan and even the
> Pischei Choshen that you evaluate him as a slave. What would the din
> be today when we have no slave market?

Since our batei din without semicha have no authority to judge dinei
chavalos anyway, the issue is moot.

-- 
Zev Sero               Meaningless combinations of words do not acquire
z...@sero.name          meaning merely by appending them to the two other
                        words `God can'.  Nonsense remains nonsense, even
                        when we talk it about God.   -- C S Lewis

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 2:59 PM, Zev Sero <z...@sero.name> wrote:
> Since our batei din without semicha have no authority to judge dinei
> chavalos anyway, the issue is moot.

I don't think so, we are talking about nezeq which is not a knas but
damages which we are batei din do deal with.

On 22/08/16 09:11, Marty Bluke wrote:
> I don't think so, we are talking about nezeq which is not a knas but
> damages which we are batei din do deal with.

No, our batei din aren't authorised to deal with chavalos at all.
Our dayanim are only the shluchim of the real batei din that used to
exist, and they didn't authorise us for this.


-- 
Zev Sero               Meaningless combinations of words do not acquire
z...@sero.name          meaning merely by appending them to the two other
                        words `God can'.  Nonsense remains nonsense, even
                        when we talk it about God.   -- C S Lewis

On Monday, August 22, 2016, Zev Sero <z...@sero.name> wrote:
> No, our batei din aren't authorised to deal with chavalos at all.
> Our dayanim are only the shluchim of the real batei din that used to
> exist, and they didn't authorise us for this.

Yet this din is quoted in shulchan aruch Siman 420.

On 22/08/16 12:37, Marty Bluke wrote:
> Yet this din is quoted in shulchan aruch Siman 420.

Yes.  Remember that the Mechaber had smicha, and could therefore in principle
sit a bet din that would judge dinei chavalos.   And there were functioning
slave markets where such a bet din could conduct such an assessment.

-- 
Zev Sero               Meaningless combinations of words do not acquire
z...@sero.name          meaning merely by appending them to the two other
                        words `God can'.  Nonsense remains nonsense, even
                        when we talk it about God.   -- C S Lewis

On Monday, August 22, 2016, Zev Sero <z...@sero.name> wrote:
> On 22/08/16 12:37, Marty Bluke wrote:
>> Yet this din is quoted in shulchan aruch Siman 420.

> Yes. Remember that the Mechaber had smicha, and could therefore in principle
> sit a bet din that would judge dinei chavalos. And there were functioning
> slave markets where such a bet din could conduct such an assessment.

The mechaber does not pasken halachos because he had semicha. In any case
the Tur and other piston including the Aruch Hashulchan who most definitely
did not have semicha bring this lehalacha in Siman 420.


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