Avodah Mailing List

Volume 34: Number 108

Sun, 04 Sep 2016

• 1. Re: aveilut for an abuser (Akiva Miller)
• 2. Mourning an Abusive Parent (Rabbi Meir G. Rabi)
• 3. Learning Torah from Evil People (was: Mourning an Abusive Parent) (Micha Berger)
• 4. Re: Rambam intent (H Lampel)
• 5. The Double-Header Haftarah (Professor L. Levine)

from R' Moshe Yehuda Gluck:

> Another weird case I've wondered about for years: A man receives a
> heter mei'ah rabbanim, marries again, and then his first (and
> still) wife dies. He sits shivah for the first, presumably, even
> though they may have been estranged for years. (A similar situation,
> though less weird to me, would be in regards to an agunah, where a
> spouse would presumably sit shivah for the spouse even though they
> haven't been in contact for years.)

R' Mordechai Cohen suggested:

> In the agunah case - if he was mechuayav to divorce her and
> refused to do so he (perhaps) w be considered a rasha and no shiva
> would be required.

There might be no need to go so far as to declare him a rasha. Perhaps an
honest appraisal of their relationship is all that is needed.

Rabbi Chaim Binyamin Goldberg writes in "Mourning in Halacha" (ArtScroll)
15:4 -

"If one was in disharmony with his wife and intended to divorce her, but
before he did so she died, some rule that he is not obligated to mourn for
her. But others disagree. [Chiddushei R' Akiva Eiger (loc. cit.); Yeshuos
Yaakov, Even HaEzer 4:subfootnote 8]"

(I presume that R' Akiva Eiger is the meikil here, and the Yeshuos Yaakov
is the machmir. Unfortunately, it's not clear to me where the "loc.cit." is
referring to.)

It seems to me that RMYG's case of Heter Meah Rabanim is a kal vachomer for
the R' Akiva Eiger, inasmuch as he not only *intended* to divorce her, but
went the extra step of writing a get pending her acceptance of it.

It would be fascinating to see this RAE inside, to see his logic and what
other cases it might apply to. Several posters in this thread have
commented that Kibud Av v'Em might apply even to abusive situations, but I
have trouble understanding why that would apply to spouses.

I am not the first person who ever gave a "Mazel Tov!" to someone who
escaped from a bad relationship, and I wonder why the Yeshuos Yaakov would
obligate someone to mourn the death.

Akiva Miller
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Mourning an abusive parent ought to be prohibited since it violates the
Issur of Chanufa - we are not permitted [according to R Yona under pain of
death] to in any way show endorsement or even acceptance of a Rasha. If
this person has shown no remorse, he remains a Rasha. I suppose the Q then
becomes HOW much remorse must he show? Because possibly a minimal amount of
remorse means he is no longer a Rasha, even if he has not the fortitude to
ask Mechila from his victims.

The Gemara BM discussing children returning identifiable objects, a pink
caddillac which is the Ribis collected by their deceased father says this
only takes place when the father has repented but died before being able to
complete returning the identifiable object. Otherwise he is a Rasha. They
are not permitted to honour a Rasha. Which suggests that if he had the
opportunity to return it but did not - he still remains a Rasha
notwithstanding any remorse he may have expressed.

The only argument to honour a Mechallel Shabbos BeFarHesya with an Aliyah
is that these-days, Chillul Shabbos is no longer seen as a trampling upon
and a dismissive rejection of, Yiddishkeit.

Best,

Meir G. Rabi
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On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 08:47:43PM -0400, Cantor Wolberg via Avodah wrote:
: My second question is: Can you learn Torah from a known pedophile?

The opinion I gave from R' Shimon Shkop's intro is not covered in this
broader survey. But over Shabbos I read this 2-part article by R
Dovid Lishtenstein that really covers the question with a wide variety
of rulings.

https://www.ou.org/torah/halacha/headlines/disgraced-rabbi-part-1
https://www.ou.org/torah/halacha/headlines/disgraced-rabbi-part-2

Mostly on this topic, but opens with a short discussion on how to handle
rumor and closes with a discussion of published works by a disreputable
but learned author.

Gut Voch!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             "And you shall love H' your G-d with your whole
mi...@aishdas.org        heart, your entire soul, and all you own."
http://www.aishdas.org   Love is not two who look at each other,
Fax: (270) 514-1507      It is two who look in the same direction.

> From: Micha Berger Thu, 1 Sep 2016 13:47:12 -0400
>
>
> ...LAD, the Rambam wrote Mishnah Torah as shelish bemishnah, still requiring
> shelish begemara (lehavin davar mitokh davar, etc...) for those who are
> capable of it.

In support of this, when Rav Pinchas HaDayyan chided the Rambam for what 
he wrote in the introduction to his Mishneh Torah, the Rambam responded 
(Letter to Pinchas HaDayyan) as follows:

    ...you write, ''It would be proper for your eminence to edify the
    world with the instructions not to neglect toiling in the Gemora...''

    It is proper for me to edify you regarding this entire matter, and
    let you know that I understood quite well what you have in mind,
    even though you have only hinted to it and not expressed it
    explicitly. Know, first of all, that never did I, /chas v?shalom/,
    say ''do not occupy yourself''?either regarding the Gemora, the
    halachos of the Rif or anything else. Anyone aware of the facts can
    testify that for roughly the past one and a half years, only three
    or four of my [regular] group [of students] have studied some of my
    work under me. The majority of students desired to study the
    Halachos of the Rif, and I taught them all those halachos many
    times. And two of my students asked to learn Gemora, and I taught
    them the /mesechtos/they requested. Did I command them, or did it
    enter my mind, that I would burn all the works composed by those
    before me because of my work? *Have I not explicitly said at the
    beginning of my work that I only composed it because there are those
    who, due to the lack of ability, are unable to plumb the depths of
    the Talmud, and who cannot decipher from it that which is prohibited
    and permitted? And I elaborated upon this greatly.*


I admit that I find it hard to produce said elaboration, but this is 
what the Rambam says he meant.


Zvi Lampel

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From

http://ohr.edu/this_week/insights_into_halacha/7001


Directly due to the interesting circumstances of this week, Parshas Re'eh /
Shabbos Rosh Chodesh Elul, an unusual occurrence will transpire in a
fortnight on Parshas Ki Seitzei: a double haftarah. Not a printing mistake,
this double haftarah will actually be recited by the vast majority of
Ashkenazic congregations worldwide.

Many do [not] realize this special occurrence even exists. In fact, one
recent time this occurred, when I mentioned the uniqueness of this
situation to the gabbai on that Shabbos itself, he responded that he had
never heard of a double haftarah! He maintained that at the hashkama
minyan, filled with Bnei Torah, not a single one pointed out such a thing!
[No, I did not daven Haneitz that Shabbos.] I had to show this ruling to
him explicitly in both the Mishnah Berurah and the Tukachinsky Luach Eretz
Yisrael, before he consented to allow the Baal Koreh to read both haftaros.
However, his skeptical response was quite understandable, as the previous
occurrence of a double haftarah to that Shabbos was fourteen years prior!


See the above URL for more.  YL

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