Avodah Mailing List

Volume 35: Number 8

Tue, 17 Jan 2017

• 1. Kosher meat products regularly bear the OU symbol with the word ?Glatt?. What does this mean? (Professor L. Levine)
• 2. Tzarich Iyun: Glatt Kosher (Professor L. Levine)
• 3. Solving Nishmas (David Wacholder)
• 4. The OU on Glatt Poultry (Professor L. Levine)
• 5. Re: Tzarich Iyun: Glatt Kosher (Micha Berger)
• 6. Re: Yaakov v Yehuda (Micha Berger)
• 7. Re: The OU on Glatt Poultry (Rich, Joel)

From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis


Q. Kosher meat products regularly bear the OU symbol with the word ?Glatt?. What does this mean, and would the product still be kosher if it isn?t Glatt?


A. The Talmud (Chullin 42a) delineates a number of physical defects that an
animal may have which would render it treif. The most common of these is a
punctured lung. Additionally, lungs often have adhesions which could
indicate that there is a rupture in the lung, or it could lead to the
development of one. Because of the prevalence of this defect, the Talmud
mandates that every lung be checked for abnormalities (Rashba Chullin 9a).
There are many types of adhesions, and each must be tested and evaluated
before the animal can be declared kosher. The type of tests to be carried
out are a subject of debate between the Shulchan Aruch and the Rama (Y.D.
39:13). While the Rama does record some customary leniencies that the
Shulchan Aruch disapproves of, Rama himself expresses some hesitation in
the prevailing custom to be lenient.

Meat of an animal which is found not to have adhesions which require these
questionable assessments is called ?Glatt? ? Yiddish for smooth, an
indication to the condition of the lung. Others, which have been subjected
to these assessments, are called ?Kosher?.

Because of Rama?s hesitation, and in order to satisfy glatt kosher consumers, the OU only certifies Glatt Kosher meat.

________________________________________________________________________

This explanation does not deal with the fact that one sees the word "Glatt" on poultry.  As I understand it,  there is no such think as Glatt poultry.

I have been in touch with someone at the OU who told me that is you look
carefully,  you will see that the word Glatt is not part of the OU kashrus
symbol on poultry.  The poultry companies put this on the labels.

Several years ago I spoke to the head mashgiach at Empire poultry and asked
him about the word Glatt that is on their labels. When I pointed out to him
that there is no such thing as Glatt poultry,  He readily agreed.  Then he
said, "What can we do?	When we did not have the word Glatt on the label
people called up and asked if our poultry was really kosher, since it did
not say Glatt on the label.  So we now put Glatt on the label."


Isn't there a saying, "The Olam is a golem"?


YL


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Rabbi Dr. Ari Zivotofsky sent me the following today.


I am sure you have seen this article:
https://www.ou.org/torah/machshava/tzarich-iyun/tzarich_iyun_glatt_k
osher/

I had not seen his article before he brought it to my attention.

YL

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   1. Machzor Vitry 148-153 is entitled Pisron Nishmas. MV ? actually Rashi
   ? explains the Nishmas prayer, from Nishmas Kol Chai  through Yishtabach
   Shimcha to Melech Keil Chay Haolamim. Rashi insists on structure ? the
   beginning and end ideas must match.
   2. Toward the beginning of Nishmas, Rashi uniquely in Tzarfas
   manuscripts, has VeHashem Shmo Eir Lo Yanum Vlo Yiyshan. Todays  Nusach
   Sefard siddurim have it, Nusach Ashkenaz dropped it. It replaces the
   simpler phrase Hashem Shomeir ?Lo Yanum Vlo Yiyshan ;; inserts Hashem Shmo
   Eir?Lo Yanum Vlo Yiyshan. Shmo Eir is not itself a Passuk, but it contains
   an interesting idea.
   3. MV 148 Rashi explains that it refers to Parshas VaEira ? Hashem says
   I appeared to them with the Name Keil Shakay but  Ushmi HVHY lo nodati
   lahem to the Avos.?
   4. Meaning I Hashem merely promised the Avos that I will rescue and
   remove the  Bnei Yisrael out of Mitzrayim, but now I am delivering on the
   promise. The Avos were totally dedicated to Hashem ? the Avos proved their
   dedication to Hashem, allowing the highest attainable Partnership with
   Hashem for Kavod Hashem.
   5. The Avos  measured up to all expectations. No special dispensations
   were required for the Avos. Combining Rashi on Chumash with MV
   6. Now that there is a great multitude, many of them resigned to
   Pharaoh?s tyranny, sinking through levels of assimilation within the Mitzri
   culture, tremendous Rachamim is required, to ignore their present attitudes
   and focus on their future dedication.
   7. Not only is there a promise to the Avos, it is a unilateral covenant
   of Hashem with Himself, to adopt all of the Bnie Yiserael and remove them
   from Pharaoh?s tyranny. Rachamim- like a woman carrying a child forms a
   permanent connection, long before the child has much to say about it.
   8. The unilateral dedication is Ehkeh. See RAshi on Ehkeh ? I will Be
   there for them in this tzara And in the ensuing Tzaros! Ehkeh means
   actively protecting them . Like parenting where at the onset of the
   relationship the child is only reactive. At the very beginning ? Ehekeh ?
   whatever the obstacles, Hashem will rescue all of them. Ani Vlo Malach.
   There were not myriads of protestors against Pharaoh.
   9. Once there is some reaction from the child, there is a bilateral
   relationship. The king is addressed by his subjects in the Third Person. We
   are allowed to say He will be there for us dependably, Protect us.
   10. MV and Rashbam use the phrase Hoveh ? becoming ? as doing deeds
   worthy to  be crowned as King. Ma Hoveh Laadam what becomes of man. He will
   Become king of the Entire world.  In turn BY bow in complete devotion.
   11. Rav Yosef Bchor Shor of Orleans ? renowned Baal Tosfos ? in his
   Peirushim on Chumash, tends to air out all controversies. Rather than
   suggesting other ways to explain Ehkeh and HVHY, Bchor Shor completely
   assumes Rashbam?s literal interpretation of the Name of Hashem.  He objects
   that Ehkeh must be lesser, as the Reader is allowed to pronounce it. HVHY
   must be the highest name. Meshech Chochma also comments on this issue.
   12. Shma?Hashem Echad ? Rashbam explains Hashem Elokeinu ? Hasem watches
   over us, Hashem Echad ? exclusively we trust Only Hashem, in a trusting
   relationship  no talismans and good luck charms are necessary,.
   13. Rashi would not refer to the general attribute of Hashgacha Pratis.
   He would rather say focused attention -  ?Hashgacha Tmidis? ? Einei Hashem
   Elokecha bah from beginning of year to end.
   14. Mitzvos are the House Rules. He inhabits your Camp in wars, so do
   not do anything that would drive Him away.
   15. Ata Hu Rishon ? you are first ? since You made the Covenant to
   protect Bnei Yisrael ? Rokeiach al Hatorah.
   16. Chai Olamim ? present and ready to intercede at all times the moment
   needed. The comparison to creation is skipped here.
   17. Since distance converts to time ? as in - eleven days travel from
   Choreiv - ? for ever includes any place that His Callers are in trouble.
   18. To me that suggests Baruch has a root meaning of greeting Hshem who
   is Present.

When Hashem is Present, that is a blessing.

   1. At end of Nishmas Yishtabach ? Chai Haolamim ? Hoveh ? hayah vyihyeh?
   Note that instead of conventional translation  Gives Life to Worlds, he
   translates eternal. Hoveh precedes the others, to say He does wonders to
   earn the throne.
   2. . Ani Hashem lo shaniti ? end of trei Assar ? Malachi ? My
   relationship with you Bnei Yisrael has not weakened or wavered, implying ?
   just as up to now you continued on, rather than ending, it will continue
   like that.
   3. Rashi always used the style of a Mfareish, signaling where Rashi?s
   own ideas were being expressed. Command of Tanach Midrash and Piyutim was
   expected of the listeners. .
   4. Machzor Vitri ? Pitron Nishmas ? 148-153 is the most detailed shiur
   we have from Rashi. Combining it with parallels in Rashi? Chumash
   commentary, his grandson Rashbam?s interpretation of Rashi, a picture
   emerges of Rashi?s Hashkafa.
   5. Rashi?s leading disciples add comments, including RABaN ? credited as
   the scribe. RABaN?s grandson  RaABiYaH alludes to this piece, missed by Rav
   D  Deblitsky?s edition. Rashi proves at length that the paragraph of
   Yishtabach begins earlier ? AL KOL ? besides the praises for all the
   miracles up to Dovid Hamelech, besides those even after, Hashem continues
   to add new wonders and miracles ? so that new praise is necessary ? so
   Hashem?s wonders will be continuously Glorified ? Yishtabach for ever Your
   glorious Name.

Raabiyah inserts it as an easy answer why Yishtabach need not formally
open  Baruch Atah? as it is has continuity with  Baruch SheAmar.
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The following is from today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis.	It basically says
what I sent out about Glatt poultry yesterday.	However, it adds some
information about poultry in Europe and Asia where apparently lung
inspection is required.  I was under the impression that at times it has
been necessary to inspect the lungs of poultry in Israel also.


YL


Q. I've noticed that many poultry products have an "OU GLATT" designation,
but some simply say "OU MEAT". What is the difference between the two? - A
Consumer's Question


A. Generally, the lungs of poultry have always been healthier than those of
cattle, and have never needed an inspection (Rambam, Shechita 11:12).
Therefore, strictly speaking, the application of the term Glatt to poultry
is inappropriate. Because many consumers are not aware of the difference
between cattle and poultry in this respect, it has become commonplace to
use this designation for poultry too. As a result, the term "glatt" has
taken on a colloquial meaning, which might translate as "kosher to the
highest standard". All poultry meets the same high standards set by the OU,
regardless of the MEAT or GLATT designation.

(In recent years, lungs of poultry in some countries in Europe and Asia have frequently been found to be diseased, and they require an inspection.)




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On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 09:10:02PM +0000, Professor L. Levine via Avodah wrote:
: https://www.ou.org/torah/machshava/tzarich-iyun/tzarich_iyun_gla
: tt_kosher/

RAZZ writes:
> In colloquial discourse treif refers to anything that is not kosher. The
> technical definition of treifa is based on Exodus 22:30 ... and refers
> to an animal with any of a specific group of physical defects that are
> detailed in the Talmud ...

I think that just as the Judeo-English word "treif" doesn't mean the
same thing as the original "tereifah", it is equally fair for the
Judeo-English "glatt" not to mean the same thing as the Yiddish "glatt"
nor the Hebrew "chalaq".

One could even provide a folk etymology via "pashut", which is also
from a root meaning "smooth" and is used to mean "simple", or "without
question".

The history RAZZ doesn't discuss is the era in which the Mafia took over
the kosher meat business. The Ridbaz (R Yaakov Dovid Wilovsky, 1845-1919)
spent Friday night one week locked in the meat freezer, and when he got
out he and his whole family fled Chicago - that night! The Ridbaz decided it
was piquach nefesh and hopped on a train on Shabbos.

RJJ also fought this battle. He invented the plumba and managed to take
over qualification standards for shochtim and required the presence of
separate mashgichim. But alll through his time there the battle over
shachthoisen earned him enemies and he was routinely slandered in hostile
Yiddish papers.

In Boston, it drove my greatgrandfather (R' Yisrael Avraham Abba [Meir
Simchah] Krieger, 1872-1931) to an early grave. And when RYBS took over
a year later, there was a mess for him to clean up.

This was a major stain on the mental image of Agudas haRabanim rabbis.
There was even a backlash in YU against RYBS -- including a scathing
editorial in the student newspaper against the idea of making him
president -- because RYBS was a AhR member.

When the Hungarian and Chassidim for nearby regions immigrated / fled
to the US, they needed glatt shlachthoisen, as it is their minhag to
only eat glatt. More meiqil than Bet Yosef's glatt, because it's "only"
a minhag, but what was already in place wouldn't meat their demand. And
because they started from a clean slate, they didn't have these problems
that the existing slaughterhouses did.

During this era, it really was true that the glatt slaughterhouses were
much more likely to be reliable WRT basic kashrus as well. Even many of
those who were noheig to ohold like the Rama would look for glatt for
this reason. And so, the word shifted in meaning.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             None of us will leave this place alive.
mi...@aishdas.org        All that is left to us is
http://www.aishdas.org   to be as human as possible while we are here.
Fax: (270) 514-1507            - Anonymous MD, while a Nazi prisoner

On Thu, Jan 05, 2017 at 09:57:23AM -0800, Martin Brody via Avodah wrote:
: Micah Berger asked
: > Is it so hard to believe that for all his greatness,
: > Yehudah still didn't reach his father's level?"

: Not according to Brachot 34B.( In the place where BT's stand, Tzaddikim
: don't)
: Yehudah did teshuva Yaakov didn't.

1- Who said Yaaqov didn't ever do teshuvah?

2- You are assuming that greatness only has one metric.

After all, a tzadiq ben tzadiq's prayers are answered more readily than
a tzadiq ben rasha's. The sayng does not take into account the work it
took to buck one's upbringing.

3- Even if the baal teshuvah were greater than the tzadiq in the same
way as is reflected in tzadiq gozeir veElokim meqayeim, it would still
be hard to read that as meaning anyone who did teshuvah would be greater
than Binyamin, Amram, Yishai or Kilav (to pick tzadiqim that didn't have
much to do teshuvah for since they didn't sin). Lo qam navi od beYisrael
kemosheh -- only because he did teshuvah? There has to be an implied,
"all else being comparable..." or else it just doesn't make sense.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Live as if you were living already for the
mi...@aishdas.org        second time and as if you had acted the first
http://www.aishdas.org   time as wrongly as you are about to act now!
Fax: (270) 514-1507            - Victor Frankl, Man's search for Meaning

, it adds some information about poultry in Europe and Asia where
apparently lung inspection is required.  I was under the impression that at
times it has been necessary to inspect the lungs of poultry in Israel also.



YL





----------------------



KT
Joel Rich


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