Volume 35: Number 88
Mon, 03 Jul 2017
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Message: 1
From: Zev Sero
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 18:15:07 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] 10 tribes -- exile without redemption
On 26/06/17 12:15, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> On this thread, did any of us mention birkhas ge'ulah? "Ufdeih
> khin'umekha Yehudah veYisrael" expresses our expectation that Hashem
> will redeem both malkhios. Or is there another way to talk separately
> about Yehudah and Yisrael.
>
> So I would think the siddur pasqens, and this is in all traditional
> nusachos, that the 1- tribes are not permanently lost.
It is not in all traditional nuschaos. TTBOMK it's found only in Nusach
Ashkenaz. Sefarad substitutes the pasuk "Goaleinu", Italians substitute
"Biglal avot...", I don't know what other traditional nuschaot do.
(Modern Nusach Ashkenaz and some versions of the Chassidic "Sfard"
combine the old Ashkenaz and Sefarad endings; this was originally Nusach
Tzorfat, back when that was distinct from Ashkenaz.)
(The reason for the Sefaradi ending with the pasuk rather than the other
two versions is that the bracha is about Geulat Mitzrayim, not the
future Geulah, hence the chatima "Ga'al Yisrael" as distinct from "Go'el
Yisrael" in the 7th of the 18, so ending with a prayer for the future
Geulah is off topic. I don't know how the other two nuschaot would
respond, but maybe that's why NA ended up adopting the Tzorfati
combination.)
--
Zev Sero May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,
z...@sero.name be a brilliant year for us all
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Message: 2
From: via Avodah
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 01:08:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Agudah [was: Support for Maaseh Satan]
From: Eli Turkel via Avodah <avo...@lists.aishdas.org>
<<The Agudist (at least classically, there were exceptions
in the early years of the state, and things seem to be wearing down now)
believe that Jews can regain sovereignty over EY for the first time in
2 millenia without it being religiously significant.>> [--I don't know who
is being quoted here]
R Yoel bin Nun has given this argument for many years. He understands DL
and Satmar but claims that the Agudah poisition basically denies that G-d
affects history. We now have a state for some 70 years that appears to be
very successful but is against the wishes of G-d.
--
Eli Turkel
>>>>>>
All through Tanach there are examples of reshaim who succeed (if only for
a while). Obviously it is Hashem's wish that they succeed, even if it is
not His wish that they sin.
What is remarkable and miraculous about the last century of history in
Eretz Yisrael is how Eretz Yisrael has been built up, the growth of
agriculture, cities, the economy, the Jewish population, and most of all the amazing
growth of Torah living and learning -- despite secular socialist Zionism.
The Medinah gets some credit but what is most remarkable is that so much
good has happened despite the Medinah or even very much against the will of
the secular government. There is so much ohr vechoshech mishtamshim
be'irbuvya. Nevertheless it is impossible /not/ to see the Yad Hashem in the
overall course of events over the past century. How many prophecies are coming
true before our very eyes!
A thriving economy grew up under the very feet of the socialists! Is that
not a miracle?! Has such a thing ever happened in any other country?!
:- )
So what is the Agudah's position?
In November 1947, when the UN voted for the establishment of the Jewish
State, the Agudah made the following declaration:
--begin quote--
The World Agudas Yisroel sees as an historic event the decision of the
nations of the world to return to us, after 2000 years, a portion of the Holy
Land, there to establish a Jewish state and to encompass within its borders
the banished and scattered members of our people. This historic event must
bring home to every Jew the realization that ***the Almighty has brought
this about in an act of Divine Providence*** [my emphasis] which presents us
with a great task and a grave test. We must face up to this test and
establish our life as a people, upon the basis of Torah.
While we are sorely grieved that the Land has been divided and sections of
the holy Land have been torn asunder, especially Yerushalayim, the holy
city, while we still yearn for the aid of Mashiach tzidkeinu, who will bring
us total redemption, we nevertheless see the hand of Providence offering us
the opportunity to prepare for the geula shelaima if we will walk into the
future as G-d's people.
--end quote--
[quoted in __To Dwell in the Palace: Perspectives on Eretz Yisrael__ edited
by Tzvia Ehrlich-Klein, 1991]
The above is still fairly representative of the hashkafa of broad swaths
of Klal Yisrael who are charedi or charedi-leaning, yeshivish or chassidish,
neither Satmar nor Dati Leumi. That is, the majority of all frum Jews in
America and Eretz Yisrael.
--Toby Katz
t6...@aol.com
..
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Message: 3
From: via Avodah
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 01:31:41 -0400
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Explanation of the Tur?
From: Chana Luntz via Avodah <avo...@lists.aishdas.org>
I
Well the CC is explaining the Rambam. The Rambam says:
--quote-- A woman who studies Torah gains a reward but not like the reward
of a man,
...and even though she gains a reward, the Sages commanded that a man
should not
teach his daughter Torah because the majority of women their minds are not
suited to
the learning, and they will turn matters of Torah to matters of
foolishness according to
the poverty of their minds, the Sages said: Anyone who teaches his daughter
Torah it is as if he teaches her tiflut. With regard to what are we
speaking, with Torah she baal peh [oral Torah]; but Torah she bichtav
[written Torah] even though he should not teach her ab initio, if he taught
her it is not as though he taught her tiflut. --end quote--
That is, the Rambam says: women who study Torah gain reward BUT a man
should
not teach his daughter Torah BUT only Torah she ba'al peh is tiflut, while
Torah shebichtav shouldn't be done, it is not tiflut.
So, the Rambam here appears to only have two categories of Torah, torah
sheba'al peh, and torah shebichtav ...
....But saying that the
experiential aspect is not Torah at all, would seem to be saying the
shimush
talmedei chachaimim, which is so valued as essential for horah, is in fact
not Torah at all, and it would also seem to knock out ma-aseh rav, which is
again absolutely critical for our definition of halacha l'ma'ase....
.....So this kind of informal education - how to put on tephillin, how to
shect,
showing how to... (the list is endless) is not Torah, and doesn't take the
bracha when done between father and son, or rebbe and talmid? Isn't that
the consequence of what you are saying? That the only Torah that men are
obligated to learn as Talmud Torah are the formal abstract rules and
regulations and not the practical, which is best taught experientially?
Regards
Chana
>>>>>
I think that different uses of the word "Torah" are being confused here.
The very word "Torah" has many meanings, depending on context. It can
refer to just the Chumash -- the Torah shebichsav -- about which the Rambam
says "but Torah she bichtav [written Torah] even though he should not teach
her ab initio, if he taught her it is not as though he taught her tiflut."
Some chassidishe schools to this day do not teach girls Chumash.
The word Torah can mean both Chumash and Gemara. "The Sages said: Anyone
who teaches his daughter
Torah it is as if he teaches her tiflut." There is universal agreement
that "Torah" in this context means Gemara. NO ONE thinks that teaching
halacha to girls is tantamount to teaching tiflus.
The word "Torah" can refer to the vast corpus of everything that has ever
been written by or about the Tanaim and Amoraim, Rishonim and Achronim. The
word can refer to halacha, to hashkafa, to everything that makes up Jewish
life and thought.
"Torah" can also refer to that which is taught and learned by example, or
by osmosis, or by a mother's tears when she bentshes lecht and davens for
her children. "Al titosh Toras imecha."
Every language has words like that, words whose precise meaning depends on
context. Certainly in the Gemara itself there are many such words.
--Toby Katz
t6...@aol.com
..
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Message: 4
From: Professor L. Levine
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 13:18:11 +0000
Subject: What is the correct way to pronounce Hashem’s name in Shmoneh
From today's OU Halacha Yomis
Q. What is the correct way to pronounce Hashem's name in Shmoneh Esrei
and other brachos?
A. Rav Shlomo Zalman Ehrenreich, HY"D the Av Bais Din of Shomloy in
Hungary, once wrote a letter on this subject. It reads in part, "We have
a tradition in our hands from Sinai, from the mouth of the Almighty,
that the reading of the honored and awesome name of Hashem is AH -- DOY
-- NOY (AH-DOE -- NOY or AH-DOW-NOY) using the vowelization of Chataf
Patach for the Aleph, a Cholam for the Daled and a Kamatz for the Nun..."
"Our master the Chasam Sofer and the author of the Yesod V'Shoresh
HaAvodah, zt"l and a whole group of Geonim and Kedoshim have already
warned us that unfortunately there are many mistakes concerning this. One
needs to be very careful about this matter for a common mistake has spread
among the masses and even among those with fear of Hashem. Through a lack
of concentration, the Daled (of Hashem's pronounced name) is said with
a Sheva as "AHD-ENOY." It is certain that whoever pronounces Hashem's
name this way has not said Hashem's name at all and must repeat the
bracha again, and so did the Chasam Sofer rule."
Rav Shimon Schwab, zt"l in his classic work on Siddur, Iyun Tefilla
(p. 25), adds that one should also be careful not to say AH -- DEE --
NOY. He writes: "One must pronounce the Daled with a Cholam (DOY, DOE
or DOW) and the Nun with a Kamatz, and not use a Chirik under the Daled
(DEE) as is the custom of some who are mistaken and think that they
are pronouncing the Name properly... This is a disgrace of the honored
and awesome Name. One who pronounces Hashem's name with a Chirik even
a hundred times a day is not transgressing the prohibition of saying
Hashem's name in vain."
Rav Pinchas Scheinberg, zt"l was once asked if Ahd-enoy or Ahdeenoy are
acceptable be'dieved, after the fact. His response was a resounding "No!"
Go to top.
Message: 5
From: Zalman Alpert
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 09:30:39 -0400
Subject: Re: What is the correct way to pronounce Hashem’s name in
On Jun 29, 2017 10:18 AM, "Professor L. Levine" <llev...@stevens.edu> wrote:
> From today's OU Halacha Yomis
>
> *Q. What is the correct way to pronounce Hashem?s name in Shmoneh Esrei
> and other brachos?*
There are different ways in Ashkenazi hebrew to pronounce many vowels
like cholom zeira segol etc so this answer isof little meaning
Galicianer Lithuanian German Ukrainian Hungarian and Central Polish jews
each have their own pronunciation
See Michtvei Torah by Gerer rebbe Imre Emes where opines different than
what is written here
Rabbi Heschel of Hamodia several yrs ago discussed this issue in a very
cogent manner
Although many American college educated frum Jews believe there is
only 1way of halachic practice that is absurd,there are many authentic
practices to the chagrin of a group of yedhivashe people seeking to
impose uniform practicr namely their own
Nehare nehare upishteh
Go to top.
Message: 6
From: Professor L. Levine
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 13:56:07 +0000
Subject: [Avodah] Forgotten Fast Days
Please see the article at
https://ohr.edu/this_week/insights_into_halacha/5929
YL
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Message: 7
From: Micha Berger
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 12:04:42 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Authority of Cherem deRabbeinu Gershom
AhS EhE 1:23,25 etc... refers to taqanos or gezeiros passed by Rabbein
Gershon meOr haGolah and his contemporaries. Not the idiom I heard in the
past, "cheirem deR' Gershom" -- not even the same last letter on the name.
Since this was well after the last beis din hagadol / Sanhedrin (so
far), we have discussed in the past where the authority to pass such
laws came from. My own suggestion revolved around them being charamim
for anyone who... rather than direct issurim. But the AhS would be more
medayeiq to call them charamim if he thought that was a critical part
of the mechanism.
But here is something that had me wondering all over again.
AhS EhE 119:17... The question is how a gett given without the wife's
agreement would be valid if one holds "i avid lo mahani" (like Rava).
And yet the Rama says "avar vegirshah ba"k" he is an avaryan (and thus
in nidui) until she remarries. One it can't be fixed, because he cannot
remarry his gerushah anymore, the nidui is removed.
But the AhS writes, if this is true for a derabbanan (Kesuvor 81b)
*kol shekein* dChdR"G hu kemo qarov le'isur Torah.
Without explaining why.
And I can't even figure out how it has the authority to be more than minhag
altogether...
:-)BBii!
-Micha
--
Micha Berger If you're going through hell
mi...@aishdas.org keep going.
http://www.aishdas.org - Winston Churchill
Fax: (270) 514-1507
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Message: 8
From: Cantor Wolberg
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2017 22:03:51 -0400
Subject: [Avodah] Balak "Who's the Real Jackass"
1) Balaam advocates the destruction of an entire people. He is a hired gun
(or mouth) who has exploited his prophetic gift and is willing to help
implement a genocide for the right price.
This type of individual has separated himself from all people, hence, this position of his is coded in his very name Balaam, "B'li Am," "without a people."
2) Both Abraham and Balaam arise early and mount their donkeys. However, Abraham's donkey is referred to as "chamor," while Balaam's is called an "aton.?
Why the difference? Rabbi Ari Kahn points out that "chamor" (physical) suggests that Abraham transcends and harnesses the donkey - a symbol of the physical.
But Balaam is seen no better than his donkey, therefore his donkey speaks to him -- the inference being that Balaam has descended to an animalistic level,
and that is the symbolism of the donkey talking to him.
I see it as "chamor" in the sense of "heavy" referring to Abraham, since he
carries so much more weight than Balaam. On the other hand, Balaam's donkey
is called ?aton,?
very similar to the word "etnan" which means a "harlot's pay? ? quitet
fascinating since Balaam prostituted himself with the intention of
fulfilling Balak's request.
"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.?
Albert Einstein
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Message: 9
From: Arie Folger
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2017 17:25:15 +0200
Subject: Re: [Avodah] Support for Maaseh Satan
RMB wrote:
> IMHO, it's easier to understand Satmar or Munkacz anti-Zionism than
> Agudah's classical position of non-Zionism. The former agrees with the RZ
> that the Medinah is a huge event of vast import, but disagree about what
> the import is. The Agudist (at least classically, there were exceptions
> in the early years of the state, and things seem to be wearing down now)
> believe that Jews can regain sovereignty over EY for the first time in
> 2 millenia without it being religiously significant.
Indeed, I recall, upon dealing with those various shittos while in RIETS,
particularly as covered by Rav Charlop in a shiur of his, that Satmar and
Rav Kook are a lot closer to each other than to Agudah & Rav Soloveitchik.
--
Arie Folger,
Recent blog posts on http://rabbifolger.net/
* Koscheres Geld (Podcast)
<http://rabbifolger.net/2016/02/15/koscheres-geld-podcast/>
* Kennt die Existenz nur den Chaos? G?ttliches Vorsehen im J?dischen
Gedankengut (Podcast)
<http://rabbifolger.net/
2016/02/14/kennt-die-existenz-nur-den-chaos-gttliches-vorsehen-im-judischen
-gedankengut-podcast/>
* Halacha zum Wochenabschnitt: Baruch Hu uWaruch Schemo
<http://rabbifolger.net/2016/02/11/halacha-zum-wochenabs
chnitt-baruch-hu-uwaruch-schemo/>
* Is there Order to the World? Providence in Jewish Thought
<http://rabbifolger.net/2016/02/09/is-there-order-to
-the-world-providence-in-jewish-thought/>
* What is Modern Orthodoxy (from a radio segment)
<http://rabbifolger.net/2016/02/08/what-is-modern-orthodoxy-fro
m-a-radio-segment/>
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