Avodah Mailing List

Volume 36: Number 7

Fri, 12 Jan 2018

• 1. Re: Should One Go To Shul Today? (Akiva Miller)
• 2. Re: Brisker Methodology (Simon Montagu)
• 3. Importance of Secular Studies for Torah Studies (Professor L. Levine)
• 4. Re: Fwd: VA'EIRA "Too Much Dust Clouds the Mind with Lust" (Micha Berger)
• 5. Re: Modern knives, and tevilas keilim (Micha Berger)
• 6. Re: Napoleon (Micha Berger)
• 7. Re: Importance of Secular Studies for Torah Studies (Rich, Joel)
• 8. Re: Brisker Methodology (Rich, Joel)
• 9. Are Vegan Restaurants Kosher? (Prof. Levine)
• 10. At this time of year, I wake up before Alos Hashachar (dawn). May I eat before davening? (Professor L. Levine)
• 11. Re: Modern knives, and tevilas keilim (Zev Sero)

.

R' Mordechai Cohen wrote:

> I don't know of any obligation to doven maariv b'tzibur.
> The obligation of b'tzibur only applies to tefilot that were
> 'obligatory' ie incl chazaras hashas.
> Shacharis, musaf, mincha

This was news to me. I was not able to find this elsewhere. If anyone
knows of any sources for this, please share.

But I did find something relevant:

Mechaber 90:16 says that in order to daven with a minyan, a traveler
must go 4 mil farther than his planned stopover, or even backwards,
but need not go more than 1 mil backwards. Mishne Brura 90:50 explains
that the "4 mil forwards" rule applies only if he was planning to go
in that direction anyway, and that a diversion off to the side need
not be more than 1 mil. In my opinion, this teaches that in these
halachos, the word "l'acharav" (which is often translated as
"backwards" or "in reverse") might be best translated as "out of his
way".

Mishna Brura 90:52 says:

"See the previous seif katan, and someone sitting at home has the
halacha of going out of his way. Therefore, one who lives in a
settlement, within a mil of where they pray with ten, he has to go
there every day in the morning to pray with ten. But not in the
evening, because one does not have to go on the road at night for the
sake of minyan. And this se'if is an open rebuke to those men who are
in the city and are too lazy to go to shul to daven mincha/maariv."

Why does the MB make an exception for "the evening, because one does
not have to go on the road at night for the sake of minyan"? It seems
clear to me (especially in light of the proximity of this halacha to
Mechaber 90:15) that this is simply because of the dangers of going
outside at night. Hence it has nothing at all to do with "tefilot that
were 'obligatory'", and the word "erev/evening" was well chosen,
because the exemption is not only for maariv: it is also for mincha,
if it would force one to be outside in the dark.

The first few times that I read this MB, I saw a contradiction: If
there's no obligation to go out in the dark, even when shul is closer
than a mil, then who is he complaining about at the end? I can think
of two answers to that question: (1) It is dangerous to go out at
night in a "yishuv/settlement", but it is safe in a "eer/city". (2) If
you are genuinely afraid then you have a heter, but not if you're just
lazy.

I would also note that the above is the MB. The Aruch Hashulchan 90:20
writes: "One who lives in a yishuv/settlement, within a mil of a place
where they pray with ten, is obligated to go, every day, morning and
evening, to pray b'tzibur." The AhS seems to be stricter in two ways:
(1) I didn't notice any blanket exemptions for nighttime dangers. (2)
Where the MB says "tzarich/has to", the AhS uses the stronger
"chayav/obligated".

Akiva Miller

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 12:16 PM, Rich, Joel via Avodah <
avo...@lists.aishdas.org> wrote:

> I?d welcome some feedback on some Brisker methodology thoughts. Brisker
> dialectics sometimes seem like Newtonian physics(more Boolean in
> nature-there are 2 dinim or two explanations and it?s 100% one or the
> other), which explains a lot, but not all, the data. I wonder if a more
> quantum mechanics, less Boolean approach might explain more (but be much
> more difficult to prove).
>

I was going to suggest that "fuzzy logic" might be a more fruitful
direction to take this idea than "quantum mechanics". Then I tried googling
and came up with this:
https://www.amazon.com/Quantum-States-Talmudic-Reasoning-Hebrew/dp/1848901828
.
Unfortunately there is no preview.
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The following letter appears on pages 94 - 95 of this week's Flatbush Jewish Journal.


It is certainly true that Limudei Kodesh is more important than Limudei
Chol.  Unfortunately, this has resulted in the denigration of  the need for
secular studies in some parts of the Orthodox community.  However, this
attitude is not in consonance with a Torah perspective, because it ignores
the following:

First of all, we have the GRA's sefer Ayel Meshulash which deals with geometry and solid geometry that should be studied.

Also, there is the following opinion of the GRA that is given by R. Barukh
Schick of Shklov in the introduction to his Hebrew translation of Euclid's
book ongeometry, Sefer Uklidos (The Hague, 1780). There he writes

When I was in the illustrious city of Vilna in the presence of the Rav, the
light, the great Gaon, my master and teacher, the light of the eyes of the
exile, therenowned pious one [may HaShem protect and save him] Rav Eliyahu,
in the month of Teves 5538 [January 1778], I heard from his holy mouth that
according to what a person is lacking in knowledge of the "other wisdoms",
correspondingly he will be lacking one hundred portions in the wisdom of
the Torah, because the Torah and the "other wisdoms" are inextricably
linked together ...

In addition, we have that  R. Yhonason Eybeschutz wrote in Yaaros Devash 2:7 (as translated by L. Levi in Torah and Science pages 24-25):
For all the sciences are "condiments" and are necessary for our Torah,
such as the science of mathematics, which is the science of
measurements and includes the science of numbers, geometry, and
algebra and is very essential for the measurements required in connection
with the Eglah Arufah and the cities of the Levites and the cities of
refugeas well as the Sabbath boundaries of our cities. The science of
weights [i.e., mechanics] is necessary for the judiciary, to scrutinize in
detail
whether scales are used honestly or fraudulently. The science of vision
[optics] is necessary for the Sanhedrin to clarify the deceits perpetrated by idolatrous priests; furthermore, the need for this science is great in
connection with examining witnesses, who claim they stood at a distance
and saw the scene, to determine whether the arc of vision extends so far
straight or bent. The science of astronomy is a science of the Jews, the
secret of leap years to know the paths of the constellations and to
sanctify the new moon. The science of nature which includes the science o
fmedicine in general is very important for distinguishing the blood of the
Niddah whether it is pure or impure ... and how much more is it necessary
when one strikes his fellow man in order to ascertain whether the blow was
mortal, and if he died whether he died because of it, and for what disease
one may desecrate the Sabbath. Regarding botany, how great is the power of
the Sages in connection with kilayim [mixed crops]! Here too we may mention
zoology, to know which animals may be hybridized; and chemistry, which is
important in connection with the metals used in the  tabernacle, etc.

Professor Yitzchok Levine
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On Mon, Jan 08, 2018 at 03:49:48PM +0200, Simon Montagu via Avodah wrote:
: Either way, I don't think it's all that critical whether any of this was
: historically true of the Egyptians in either Joseph or Moses' time. Derash
: routinely merges the attributes of historical resha`im and contemporaries,
: either lesaber et ha'ozen when describing the ancient ones, or in order to
: use them as stand-ins when criticizing the modern world (e.g. Bereishit
: Rabba mentioning the circuses and theatres in Sodom).

However, if it's not how people closer to the Misr Empire in time actually
understood the Mitzri worldview, it means there is an intended lesson
we still didn't mine from the story.

Regardless of whether HQBH wants us to project the matrialist /
anti-spiritual worldview on the Mitzriim of His "canvas" to emphasize
the lesson given in the original devar Torah.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

On Sun, Jan 07, 2018 at 01:02:48PM -0500, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
: It seems that many of the kitchen knives that I see for sale these
: days are labeled as being made of something called "ceramic"...

Wiki <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramic_knife> says:
   A ceramic knife is a knife designed with a ceramic blade typically
   made from zirconium dioxide (ZrO2; also known as zirconia).[1] These
   knife blades are usually produced through the dry-pressing and firing
   of powdered zirconia using solid-state sintering. Zirconia is second to
   diamond in toughness. It is 8.5 on the Mohs scale of mineral hardness,
   compared to 4.5 for normal steel and 7.5 to 8 for hardened steel and 10
   for diamond. The resultant blade has a tough edge that stays sharper
   for longer when compared to conventional steel knives. The ceramic
   blade is sharpened by grinding the edges with a diamond-dust-coated
   grinding wheel.

: Anyway, I strongly suspect that these knives are non-metallic and thus
: exempt from Tevilas Keilim.
...
: To help insure that this thread stays on Avodah, I will add the
: following: To my knowledge, plain unglazed earthenware is clearly
: exempt from tevila, but many (most?) require tevila for *glazed*
: earthenware, because the glaze is considered like glass. I suspect

The question would be whether sintered zirconia is zekhukhis. So, I
clicked the link on "sintering" at the above page to get to
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintering>:
    Sintering is the process of compacting and forming a solid mass of
    material by heat[1] or pressure[2] without melting it to the point
    of liquefaction.

    Sintering happens naturally in mineral deposits or as a manufacturing
    process used with metals, ceramics, plastics, and other materials. The
    atoms in the materials diffuse across the boundaries of the particles,
    fusing the particles together and creating one solid piece. Because
    the sintering temperature does not have to reach the melting point
    of the material, sintering is often chosen as the shaping process
    for materials with extremely high melting points such as tungsten
    and molybdenum....

So, it's like making glass, but instead of heating to the melting
point, it gets the particles to merge by other means. There is ceramic
instering (see the appropriate subsection of the above wikipedia entry),
except "[a]ll the characteristic temperatures associated with phase
transformation, glass transitions, and melting points, occurring during
a sinterisation cycle of a particular ceramics formulation". So, they
arent' really ceramic, they are sintered into a single whole in a
way cheres, which is poorous, isn't.

It would seem that if you want to apply the rationale of zekhukhis,
these ceramic knives would qualify, but since many/most posqim seem
nervouse about even including pyrex, I think a typical pesaq would be
to treat it with the chumerous of both zekhukhis and cheres.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Man is equipped with such far-reaching vision,
mi...@aishdas.org        yet the smallest coin can obstruct his view.
http://www.aishdas.org                         - Rav Yisrael Salanter
Fax: (270) 514-1507

On Mon, Jan 08, 2018 at 10:29:01AM -0500, David Riceman via Avodah wrote:
: Tanya... Last night we looked at chapters 10-12.
: 
: Here are two claims I think he made:
: 
:  1: There is a large group of people who never do anything wrong by
:  commission or omission, and a smaller group who never desire to do
:  anything wrong.
...
: (a) I know of no precedents for these opinions (see Koheles 7:20,
: Mishlei 24:16)

A related problem: Does anyone else define the first group "beinonim"
and the latter group "tzadiqim"? The terms seem redefined, so that
the sources later quoted and interpreted according to these terms
are transvalued into saying things the author didn't intend. (Don't
shoot me, I said "seems" -- just how the text reads to this naive
reader.)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Life isn't about finding yourself
mi...@aishdas.org        Life is about creating yourself.
http://www.aishdas.org                - Bernard Shaw
Fax: (270) 514-1507

The following letter appears on pages 94 - 95 of this week's Flatbush Jewish Journal.

---------



Kt
Joel rich
THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE 
ADDRESSEE.  IT MAY CONTAIN PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL 
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I was going to suggest that "fuzzy logic" might be a more fruitful
direction to take this idea than "quantum mechanics". Then I tried googling
and came up with this: https://www.amazon.com/Quantum-States-Talmudic-Reasoning-Hebrew/dp/1848901828.
Unfortunately there is no preview.

______________________________________________
Wow- Baruch shekivanti   It's part of a series in Hebrew.  Is anyone familiar with it?
Kt joel rich
Fuzzy Logic and Quantum States in Talmudic Reasoning (Hebrew Edition)(Hebrew) Hardcover - August 19, 2015
by Michael Abraham<https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1?ie=UTF8&;text=Michael+Abraham&search-alias=books&field-author=Michael+Abraham&sort=relevancerank>
(Author),? Israel Belfer<https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_2?ie=UTF8&;text=Israel+Belfer&search-alias=books&field-author=Israel+Belfer&sort=relevancerank>
(Author),? & 1 more<https://www.amazon.com/Quantum-States-Talmudic-Reasoning-Hebrew/dp/1848901828#>
THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE 
ADDRESSEE.  IT MAY CONTAIN PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL 
INFORMATION THAT IS EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE.  Dissemination, 
distribution or copying of this message by anyone other than the addressee is 
strictly prohibited.  If you received this message in error, please notify us 
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One might think that if a restaurant is vegan,  then there are no 
kashrus problems with eating at it.  However, as the article from the COR at

https://goo.gl/GrbWpM

points out,  this is not the case.

YL


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From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis


Q. At this time of year, I wake up before Alos Hashachar (dawn). May I eat before davening?


A. Although we noted in the previous Halacha Yomis that it is forbidden to
eat before davening Shacharis, this prohibition begins only at Alos
Hashachar. Before Alos Hashachar, one may eat, since it is not yet the time
to daven. However, within 30 minutes of Alos Hashachar, one may not begin a
meal. A meal is defined as an egg-size volume of bread or pas haba'ah
b'kisnin (bread-like products such as cake or crackers). During this half
hour, one may eat as much meat, fish, fruit, vegetables, or other non-bread
or pas haba'ah b'kisnin as they want. Even if one began a meal more than
half an hour before Alos Hashachar, once Alos Hashachar arrives all eating
must stop.

According to the Zohar, one who went to sleep and awoke after midnight may
not eat until davening Shacharis, even though it is long before Alos
Hashachar. The Mishnah Berurah writes that this is not the halacha, but it
is proper to follow the Zohar if one can. He also notes that some explain
that the Zohar was only forbidding a large meal, but a light snack would be
permitted. If one is feeling weak, they may certainly eat before Alos
Hashachar.


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On 11/01/18 18:37, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> 
> It would seem that if you want to apply the rationale of zekhukhis,
> these ceramic knives would qualify, but since many/most posqim seem
> nervouse about even including pyrex, I think a typical pesaq would be
> to treat it with the chumerous of both zekhukhis and cheres.

I don't see how it fits the rationale of zechuchis.  The reason the 
rabonon addedd glass to the kelim requiring tevilah is because, like 
metal, it can be melted and recast.  That would not be true of these 
ceramics.

-- 
Zev Sero            A prosperous and healthy 2018 to all
z...@sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper


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