Avodah Mailing List

Volume 36: Number 62

Wed, 23 May 2018

• 1. Re: Yahrtzeit Kaddish? (Akiva Miller)
• 2. Re: Making a bracha on Niagara Falls (Micha Berger)
• 3. Birkat Kohanim (Cantor Wolberg)
• 4. Who Sings In This World Will Sing Also In The Next." Joshua b. Levi, Sanhedrin, 91b (Cantor Wolberg)
• 5. Shamor v'Zachor (Akiva Miller)
• 6. Re: Making a bracha on Niagara Falls (Zev Sero)
• 7. Re: Making a bracha on Niagara Falls (Micha Berger)
• 8. Re: Shamor v'Zachor (Micha Berger)
• 9. Re: Making a bracha on Niagara Falls (Prof. Levine)
• 10. Re: What is a Chasid? (Micha Berger)
• 11. Re: The night of Makas Bechoros (Micha Berger)
• 12. Re: Making a bracha on Niagara Falls (Prof. Levine)
• 13. Re: The Real Shiurim -- They're Smaller Than You Think (Micha Berger)
• 14. Re: sattelite surveillance (Micha Berger)
• 15. Re: sattelite surveillance (Eli Turkel)
• 16. Benefits of Davening K'Vosikin (Professor L. Levine)

.
R' Joel Rich asked:
> How widespread is the practice of reserving (through a bang on
> a table) one kaddish at the end of davening for someone marking
> their Yahrzeit?  What is the source of this practice? (Me ?
> perhaps the original practice of only one person saying Kaddish).

In all the shuls in Elizabeth NJ, the practice is as follows:

If no one has yahrzeit, then there are no restrictions on Kaddish. If
someone does have a yahrzeit that day, then the Kaddish after Aleinu
is said only by him/them (including anyone still in shloshim). As RJR
guessed, this is in deference to the original minhag (still practiced
in German shuls) that no Kaddish is ever said by more than one person.
[A gabbai usually calls out "Yahrzeit!" in addition to the
table-banging.] In Shacharis, the other kaddishes (such as after Shir
Shel Yom) are said by all kaddish-sayers.

After mincha, an additional Tehillim (usually #24) is recited, so that
the other kaddish-sayers will have the opportunity to say kaddish.
This is done at maariv too, except for situations (such as in Elul)
when there's another Tehillim anyway.

Akiva Miller

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 06:52:26AM -0400, Prof. Levine via Avodah wrote:
: If one is to make a bracha on seeing Niagara Falls then clearly
: going there and seeing the falls is not nothing.

But it could still not be worth the learning missed.

There is something counterintuitive here, as there are numerous examples
of R' Avigdor Miller calling on his audience to utilize their wonder at
the amazingness of the beri'ah as a tool to building emunah and bitachon.
And yet Niagra Falls... This is why I am guessing that he meant more
"nothing compared to the cost", and not zero in an absolute sense.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             We are what we repeatedly do.
mi...@aishdas.org        Thus excellence is not an event,
http://www.aishdas.org   but a habit.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                   - Aristotle

1)  The Priestly Threefold Benediction had the following:
The first blessing has three words, the second five, the third seven.  They
remind us of the foundation for all blessings:	The tree Patriarchs, the
five books of the Torah, and the seven Heavens.  Bachya
 
2)  Israel said to God:  "Why do you tell the priests to bless us? We
desire Your blessing alone!"  Said the Holy One: "Although I have told the
priests to bless you, I shall stand in their company to give effect 
to the benediction."  Therefore, at the end of the section it states explicitly (verse 27): "I will bless them."   Midrash  Numbers R. (11:2, 8, end).
 
3) Why do we ask God first to bless us and then keep or guard us?  Because,
if He does give us material blessings, we need to be protected from the
evil results such prosperity may bring. 
The Hasidic Anthology P.359 quoting the Tzechiver Rebbe.
 
4)  There is an interesting connection between Parshat Naso, which is the
longest parsha in the Torah, comprising 176 verses, and the 119th Psalm (of
Tehillim), which also contains 176 verses 
and is the longest in the book of Psalms. This psalm carries the distinct title, "Torah, the Way of Life." 
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20180522/659172a9/attachment-0001.html>

LA'AVOD AVODAT AVODA VA'AVODAT MASA  4:47... Note the four words in a row
with the same root. (Probably the only place in the Torah with four words
in a row with the same root). 
 
Rashi says the Avodat Avoda (kind of a strange phrase) refers to playing musical instruments. 
As far as Avodat Masa (Work of burden) is concerned ? the Gemara in Chulin comments that 
only when there is heavy manual labor involved, then there is an age limit for the Leviyim (as with the others). 
 
And it seems that the age limit of 50 was only for the carrying. 
In other words, a Levi was able to continue serving in the Mishkan after 50, 
but only for SHIRA and SH'MIRA.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20180522/44954631/attachment-0001.html>

We are told that Hashem spoke the words Shamor and Zachor together, and I
have presumed that we heard them together as well. But the Ramban (Devarim
5:12) suggests that "He (Moshe) is the one who heard Zachor, and they
(heard) Shamor."

The ArtScroll Chumash (page 969) quotes Rav Gedalya Shorr as explaining:

<<< At the highest spiritual level - the one occupied by Moses - the
awesome holiness of the Sabbath is such a totally positive phenomenon that
one who understands its significance could not desecrate it. Thus, the
positive remembrance of the Sabbath contains within itself the
impossibility of violating it, just as one who loves another person need
not be warned not to harm that person. This was the commandment that Moses
"heard." Lesser people, however, do not grasp this exalted nature of the
Sabbath. They had to be told that it is forbidden to desecrate the sacred
day; when they absorbed the Ten Commandments, they "heard" primarily the
negative commandment *safeguard*. >>>

Just last week, I would have wondered how the same voice of Hashem could be
understood so very differently by the different groups. Maybe it's not so
supernatural after all. If you have not yet heard about "Laurel and Yanni",
I suggest checking it out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel

Akiva Miller
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20180522/2e78a41e/attachment-0001.html>

On 22/05/18 06:52, Prof. Levine via Avodah wrote:

> If one is to make a bracha on seeing Niagara Falls then clearly going
> there and seeing the falls is not nothing.

Not at all.  One says a bracha on many things that one would much rather 
*not* see, and that one would certainly not go out of ones way to see.

Also consider the rainbow.  If one happens to see it one says a bracha, 
and quite a positive one, but one still should not tell others to go 
outside and see it.

-- 
Zev Sero            A prosperous and healthy 2018 to all
z...@sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 09:52:57AM -0400, Prof. Levine wrote:
: RSRH certainly was involved in learning to a great extent,  and yet
: he took the time to go to Switzerland to see,  I presume, the Alps.

But AGAIN, no one obligated RAMiller to hold like RSRH.

Although here there is no contradiction. A class trip to Niagra Falls
will reduce learning. A gadol's trip the alps does not necessarily.
It's not like schoolkids will be learning on the bus, shift their sedarim
around, etc...

: R. Miller could have learned in the car ride to Niagara Falls or
: taken a plane and learned on the plane.

: Yiddishkeit is IMO based on balance,  which requires seeing the
: world as it is,  namely,  mostly gray.

But this isn't about how RAMiller lived now about life in general. It's
advice to a school, an institution dedicated to learning.

What I am actually taken by is the importance RAM is giving girls'
education. Contrast that to the number of seminaries today that are
so exclusively focused on inspiring that textual education is limited.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             When we are no longer able to change a situation
mi...@aishdas.org        -- just think of an incurable disease such as
http://www.aishdas.org   inoperable cancer -- we are challenged to change
Fax: (270) 514-1507      ourselves.      - Victor Frankl (MSfM)

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 07:29:51AM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
: Just last week, I would have wondered how the same voice of Hashem could be
: understood so very differently by the different groups. Maybe it's not so
: supernatural after all. If you have not yet heard about "Laurel and Yanni",
: I suggest checking it out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel

Except that the Rambam believes the Qol had nothing to do with accoustics
or physical sound to begin with. That the term is just being used as a
metaphor to help those of us who never experienced such things. (Moreh
2:48)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

At 09:12 AM 5/22/2018, Micha Berger wrote:

>But it could still not be worth the learning missed.
>
>There is something counterintuitive here, as there are numerous examples
>of R' Avigdor Miller calling on his audience to utilize their wonder at
>the amazingness of the beri'ah as a tool to building emunah and bitachon.
>And yet Niagra Falls... This is why I am guessing that he meant more
>"nothing compared to the cost", and not zero in an absolute sense.


RSRH certainly was involved in learning to a great extent,  and yet 
he took the time to go to Switzerland to see,  I presume, the 
Alps.  I know that Rav Schwab also went to Switzerland.  Many gedolim 
in Europe  went in the summer to vacation resorts,  and there are 
pictures of Mir students at summer camp. See 
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~rkimble/Mirweb/YeshivaStudents2.html

R. Miller could have learned in the car ride to Niagara Falls or 
taken a plane and learned on the plane.

Yiddishkeit is IMO based on balance,  which requires seeing the world 
as it is,  namely,  mostly gray.

I knew R. Miller very well, and he saw the world in only black and 
white.  IMO opinion he lived a life of extremes. He even "resented" 
having to go the Chasana of a grandchild in Cleveland.  I do not know 
of any other grandfather who would have felt that way,  do you?

YL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20180522/f0236c29/attachment-0001.html>

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 05:24:24AM +0200, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
: The nature of language is that meanings of words change over time.
...

With that in mind as a caveat, let's look at Chazal's chassidim
harishonim. Aside from famously spending 9 hours a day (12 on days
when Mussaf is said?) on tefillah,

    Our sages repeated [in a beraisa]: The early Chassidim would hide
    their thorns and broken pieces of glass in the middle of their
    fields 3 tefachim [roughly one foot] deep, so that it would not
    [even] stop the plowing.

    Rav Sheishes would put them to the fire, Ravan would place them
    in the Tigres [the large river alongside which his home city of
    Pumbedisa was built].

    Rav Yehudah said: The person who wants to be a chassid [he should
    take care] to follow the words of [the tractates on] damages.

    Ravina said: The words of [Pirqei] Avos.
    
    Others say in response [that Ravina said]: the words of [the tractate]
    Berakhos [blessings].
                                    - Bava Qama 30a

"Amrei leih" as the end is most ocnsistent with what we normally discuss
about them.

However, notice everyone else assumes a BALC definition of chassidus.

They come up in Seifer Hakabiim I as among the bravest of warriors,
and among the last to accept the permissibility of fighting on Shabbos.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             The goal isn't to live forever,
mi...@aishdas.org        the goal is to create so mething that will.
http://www.aishdas.org
Fax: (270) 514-1507

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 07:05:47AM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
: I have distilled my problem down to two simple and direct questions about
: the dough mentioned in the above pasuk:
: 1) When was that dough made?
: 2) When was that dough baked?

We are talking about 600,000 or so homes. I assume there are a range
of answers. And when the Torah says they didn't have time for it to become
chameitz, it means that in many or most of those homes... enough that the
haste came to characterize how we left.

Just trying to aid the imagination by three-dimensionalizing the peopl
involved.

: We were forbidden to leave our homes until morning, and it is totally
: irrelevant to me whether you prefer to define "morning" as Alos or as
: Hanetz. Either way, there way plenty of time from when Par'oh and the
: Mitzrim went shouting in the streets, "Get out!" until we were able to
: leave our homes. I estimate that we had several hours to prepare food for
: the trip...

Already in this discussion it was raised that in Shemos we're told we left
"be'etzem hayom". And yet, in yesterday's leining, we're told "hotziakha
H' E-lokekha loylah" (Devarim 16:1) Rashi ad loc (based on Sifrei Devarim
128:5, Barakhos 9a) says that we got permission from Par'oh at night
(Shemos 12:31). So there was, as you write, PLENTY of warning.

But they also had get their neighbors' valutables, pack, get the animals
in hand, find Yanky's favorite bottle, figure out who was getting
custody of those kids wandering around that neighborhood that choshekh
obliterated...

So, little things like what to pack for lunch was rushed, and in most
cases, that meant they were left with matzah. (Despite likely promising
themselves that if they ever got out of Egypt, they would never eat
lechem oni again!)

Your 1 mil assumption, BTW, might come from the matzah of the seder
they were commanded to make, and that this matzah was not necessarily
KLP.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             The waste of time is the most extravagant
mi...@aishdas.org        of all expense.
http://www.aishdas.org                           -Theophrastus
Fax: (270) 514-1507

At 10:27 AM 5/22/2018, Micha Berger wrote:
>Although here there is no contradiction. A class trip to Niagra Falls
>will reduce learning. A gadol's trip the alps does not necessarily.
>It's not like schoolkids will be learning on the bus, shift their sedarim
>around, etc...

The question was asked about girls' high schools,  not yeshiva boys!

Do you really think he was concerned about the reduction in learning 
for the girls!  I think not!

He held that Niagara is "nothing" something that makes no sense to me
in light of the fact the Falls are one of Hashem's wonders.



[Email #2.]

Here is what R. Miller actually said in response to a question about 
going to Niagara Falls.  the question was asked about high schools 
taking girls to the Falls. As you can see,  his statement about 
Niagara Falls being "nothing " had nothing to do with bitul Torah.

I find his response baffling to say the least.

YL
<https://us17.campaign-archive.com/?e=36dbdc2d1a&;u=9c3f2f103d7121f7ccd2081ae&id=ddedcb307a>


Rav Avigdor Miller on Niagara Falls

Q:
What is your opinion of the importance of a high school taking their 
students on a trip to Niagara Falls?

A:
My opinion is that it's nothing at all. You have to travel so far, 
and spend so much money to see Niagara Falls?!

Let's say, here's a frum girls' school. So they have the day off, or 
the week off, whatever it is. And where do they go? To Niagara Falls. 
What's in Niagara Falls?! A lot of water falling off a cliff. Nothing 
at all. Nothing at all!

It's the yetzer harah. The yetzer harah makes everyone dissatisfied. 
People who are really happy with what they have are almost impossible 
to find. They may say, "We're happy," but they're not. And therefore, 
they're always seeking something else. And so, they travel to Niagara 
Falls. You might say differently, but I'm telling you, that's the 
reason why people travel to Niagara Falls. It's the yetzer harah that 
is making you dissatisfied. So you have to go to see water falling 
off a cliff. But really it's nothing at all.

Of course, you yield a little bit to the yetzer harah in order that 
more girls should come to your school. You have an outing every year 
to get new talmidos, new students. But really it's nothing at all.
TAPE # E-193 (June 1999)

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 03:28:24PM -0400, Saul Guberman via Avodah wrote:
: I would say there would be a change.  It seems to me that everyone wants to
: be empirically correct on this calculation. The big problems are trying to
: area measurement(etzbah), or weight measurements (diram)  to equal volume
: measurements (kzayis).  It would seem that none were precise, unless they
: were using a particular persons' thumb and forearm.

From what I posted in the past from the AhS (OC 373:34), is seems
the definitions themselves were not constants. A person is supposed
to be using their own thumb, fist or forearm when the din is only
about them. And standardized numbers are only invoked for things like
eiruv where one has to serve many people and "ameru chakhamim denimdod
lechumerah" -- use an ammah that covers a very high percentile of the
people relying on it.

And I tried to discuss what this would mean for shiurim like kezayis,
where a person isn't using his own body or something he could only own
one of, as a measure. But the discussion went in its own direction.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             I have great faith in optimism as a philosophy,
mi...@aishdas.org        if only because it offers us the opportunity of
http://www.aishdas.org   self-fulfilling prophecy.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                              - Arthur C. Clarke

On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 12:10:28AM +0300, Eli Turkel via Avodah wrote:
: > By 2025, 10,000 satellites will provide constant Israeli video
: > surveillance of the Middle East sufficient to carry out targeted killings
...

: What effect does this have on shabbat

How is this materially different than the problem of walking into a space
that has security camteras?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

On Tue, May 22, 2018, 2:33 PM Micha Berger <mi...@aishdas.org> wrote:
> How is this materially different than the problem of walking into a space
> that has security camteras?

No major difference  except that some people still avoid security cameras.
As they become more common it will be harder to do.   It is already
difficult to go to many hotels over shabbat.    As these devices appear
everywhere some argue that poskim will be forced to accept some minority
opinions or else we all stay home

 From today's Hakhel email bulletin.


THE BENEFITS OF VASIKIN! The following important information is posted at a Vasikin Minyan in Los Angeles, California.
http://www.hakhel.info/archivesPublicService/MaalosDaveningNeitz.jpg



------------------------------



_______________________________________________
Avodah mailing list
Avo...@lists.aishdas.org
http://www.aishdas.org/lists/avodah
http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org


------------------------------


**************************************

Send Avodah mailing list submissions to
	avodah@lists.aishdas.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://www.aishdas.org/lists/avodah/avodahareivim-membership-agreement/


You can reach the person managing the list at
	avodah-owner@lists.aishdas.org


When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Avodah digest..."

A list of common acronyms is available at
        http://www.aishdas.org/lists/avodah/avodah-acronyms
(They are also visible in the web archive copy of each digest.)