Avodah Mailing List

Volume 36: Number 105

Mon, 17 Sep 2018

• 1. Re: What is the basis of the requirement to wash ones hands upon awakening (Micha Berger)
• 2. vidui with a list (Ben Waxman)
• 3. Re: Eating on Yom Kippur (Ben Bradley)
• 4. Re: What is the basis of the requirement to wash ones hands upon awakening (Prof. Levine)
• 5. Ha'azinu (Cantor Wolberg)
• 6. Eating on Yom Kippur (M Cohen)
• 7. Re: Eating on Yom Kippur (Micha Berger)
• 8. Yasis Alayikh (Micha Berger)
• 9. Kise'irim Alei Deshe (Micha Berger)
• 10. Re: Yasis Alayikh (Zev Sero)
• 11. Re: Ha'azinu (Micha Berger)
• 12. How should one wash their hands upon waking in the morning on Yom Kippur? (Professor L. Levine)
• 13. Burdening The Public (Professor L. Levine)

On Wed, Sep 05, 2018 at 07:15:43PM +0000, Professor L. Levine via Avodah wrote:
: From yesterday's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis
:> Q. What is the basis of the requirement to wash ones hands upon awakening
...
: 1. According to Rosh, one must wash his hands prior to davening...
: 2. Rashba maintains that ...                              like the
: Kohen of old in the Bais Hamikdash who sanctifies himself by washing
: his hands before performing the avodah (Mishnah Berurah ibid.).

1 & 2 -- straight halakhah, al pi nigleh, does not give an urgency
to washing immediately upon waking up. Nor does it motivate using any
special washing patterns. The macholqes is that the Rosh holds neigl
vasr is the same din as the discussion about washing before tefillah,
whereas the Rashba holds those are two different chiyuvim.

In any case, it's a prep before mitzvah. Which is the role for seeking
taharah in general, again looking only at halakhah.

: 3. When one sleeps, a ru'ach ra'ah descends upon the body, and when he
: awakens, the ru'ach ra'ah remains on his hands, and is removed by the
: ritual of washing the hands three times (Bais Yosef O.C. 4 from Zohar
: and Mechaber 4:2 with Mishnah Berurah s.k. 8).

Al pi nistar, however, one has to wash as soon as one can, and as
metaphysics is involved we care about how you wash beyond just whether
it's koach gavra.

It is not an issue of taharah as prep for a mitzvah as much as tum'ah
is a state to avoid being in.

On Thu, Sep 06, 2018 at 04:46:06AM +0200, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
: I was recently at a class where the rav discussed Rav Ovadiah's approach
: to kabballah. This question was an example that the rav gave: ROY tz"l
: felt that there is no requirement to wash your hands immediately, just
: do it before tefilla. In general ROY felt that one can be machmir to an
: opinion in the Zohar, but it isn't a requirement.

One of ROY's stronger tendencies was to reassert the SA's rulings as
standard Sepharadi (and if he had his way, even Ashkenazi Israeli)
pesaq, after the Chida and then the Ben Ish Hai added so many qabbalistic
rulings.

You will notice that in SA OC 4:2, the mechaber gives the Zohar's
explanation of ruach ra'ah and washing three times, but says nothing
about the time urgency. Nor about using a revi'is. In terms of time,
se'if 1 follows the Rosh -- conflating this netilas yadayim with that
before davening as one obligation. He isn't quite taking the Zohar's
position at full force either.

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 08:30:47AM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
: From R' Aviner:
: Netilat Yadayim by a guest
: Q: Should a guest avoid using large quantities of water for Netilat
: Yadayim, since it is at the host's expense?
: A: It is an insignificant amount of water and the host forgives the
: cost with all of his heart.

: (me-paradigm shift due to indoor plumbing? See shabbat 62b and S"A
: O"C 158:10)

Well, that is what R' Aviner impies -- why else would today's host
be more forgiving? Now it's the miniscule price of water, then it was
carrying buckets from the well or rainbarrel.

But perhaps also it's what I said above -- the qabbalah of tum'ah has
given neigl vasr more minhagim than straight halakhah required in the
SA's day.

GCT and :-)@@ii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             "I hear, then I forget; I see, then I remember;
mi...@aishdas.org        I do, then I understand." - Confucius
http://www.aishdas.org   "Hearing doesn't compare to seeing." - Mechilta
Fax: (270) 514-1507      "We will do and we will listen." - Israelites

A rav I heard today gave a suggestion that instead of (or in addition 
to) a commentary on the al cheit, people should make short list of 
things that they need to? say "al? cheit" on.? Look at that list when 
you say the al cheit.

Ben

'The Kaf haChaim 618:1 says that only where the was a cheshash to
begin with, we can use the choleh's determination which way to go on
the cheshash.'

: Bottom line question: Is it really the case that someone is only a choleh
: in halacha when their doctor says so?

'As you see, no. But again, the KhC would say you need the doctor to say
the guy isn't just being a hypocondriac, that there is /some/ cheshash
he is basing his fear on. Even if the fear isn't realistic.'

Thanks for noticing the deliberate mistake and correcting to OC 618:1 not 518.
From the KhC as you quote him it seems that in fact he is saying that you
need the dr to say that there is some chashash, just that it doesn't get to
 safek pikuach nefesh level, before he can eat by his own estimation. To
all intents and purposes that does mean he's only a choleh when the dr says
so, at least as regards eating on YK.
WRT Shabbos, there's no such issue AFAIK. A status of choleh kol gufo,
choleh bmiktzas, michush b'alma are all determined by the patient and his
symptoms. Medical opinion is only needed when there's a doubt as to whether
there's a pikuach nefesh issue which would require chilul shabbos.

Back to the KhC, in practice it's hard to think when you would have a real
chashash which doesn't reach safek pikuach nefesh level. Usually if there's
a real chashash that's already the kind of safek which would make it hard
to say it's mutar to fast. And if there's no chashash then how is he a
choleh?
So still having difficulty fitting the criteria of this halacha, as per KhC, into any modern medical scenario.

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At 02:25 PM 9/14/2018, Micha Berger wrote:
>3. When one sleeps, a ru'ach ra'ah descends upon the body, and when he
>: awakens, the ru'ach ra'ah remains on his hands, and is removed by the
>: ritual of washing the hands three times (Bais Yosef O.C. 4 from Zohar
>: and Mechaber 4:2 with Mishnah Berurah s.k. 8).
>
>Al pi nistar, however, one has to wash as soon as one can, and as
>metaphysics is involved we care about how you wash beyond just whether
>it's koach gavra.
>
>It is not an issue of taharah as prep for a mitzvah as much as tum'ah
>is a state to avoid being in.

Why does the ru'ach ra'ah remain only on the hands?  How does it 
leave the rest of the body?

YL
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He is the Rock, his work is perfect; for all his ways are justice; a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. (Deut 32:1-4)

Of all the ways of describing God, Moses refers to God as a "Rock." The Term, of course, signifies the power of God.
But when we recall that the downfall of Moses took place when attempting to extract water from a rock,
it is all the more surprising that this particular appellation is used. This understanding may be found in the Zohar:

Rabbi Simeon said: "Moses in his Song first said The rock, perfect is His
work, referring to the occasion when water issued from the rock..." (Zohar
S'hmot 64b)

In his song which is sung immediately preceding his death, Moses completely
accepts Divine justice: He is the Rock, His work is perfect; for all His
ways are justice; 
a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is He.
Instead of avoiding this painful topic, Moses addresses it head-on,
displaying absolute acceptance of God and His will. This is yet another
indication of the spiritual level which Moses achieves.

Excerpted from Rabbi Ari Kahn



I also see it as saying ?The Rock,? perfect is His work. As perfect as God
is, if one misuses or abuses God?s blessings (striking the rock instead of
speaking to it), 
then all His ways are Justice?Moshe had to pay for his imperfections toward the Rock.  
May we strive to be kind and gentle and speak to the Rock instead of our usual impulsive and undisciplined behavior causing us to strike it.
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Bottom line question: Is it really the case that someone is only a choleh in
halacha when their doctor says so?

I once had this question about a choleh who felt some pain, and the doctors
opinion was that it was minor and c be ignored.
The patient wanted hospital care and transport etc on Shabbos.

R Shlomo miller mentioned to me the klal that 'a choleh knows maras nafsho',
and therefore the cholehs opinion should be followed even if it requires
chillul Shabbos etc.

However, I am unsure if this ruling w apply to your case, where the illness
is solely a psychiatric/psychological fear, with no physical symptoms

GCT,
Mordechai Cohen




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On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 10:56:33AM -0400, M Cohen via Avodah wrote:
: Bottom line question: Is it really the case that someone is only a choleh in
: halacha when their doctor says so?

To more clearly restate how I understood the Kaf haChaim... I believe
that someone is only a choleh in halakhah if:

1- Their own medical professional who knows their history says so.

(Sources deal with the fact that the best available resources is often
a local who lacks the formal training of the sort we associate with the
word "doctor".)

2- A significant minority of experts say so.

OR

3- They themselves say so

   Kaf haChaim: If the medical professional or a significant minority
   among experts determine *that it is plausible* that they are a choleh,
   even if they do not believe it is indeed the case.

I think the KhC's point is not only his opinion, as otherwise it would
be permissible for someone who read a web page wand got convinced they
have something horrible to eat on Yom Kippur. I find that result absurd;
it seems to me everyone would have to have some criterion for avoiding
eating on YK due to hypocondria. This idea that the doctor must agree
there is some valid grounds for the patient's fear exist -- even if he
believes the fear is misplaced.

GCT!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Problems are not stop signs,
mi...@aishdas.org        they are guidelines.
http://www.aishdas.org           - Robert H. Schuller
Fax: (270) 514-1507

Look at the haftora for parashas Nitzavim, in particular Yeshaiah 62:5.
This is apparently what R' Shelomo al-Qabetz is paraphrasing, as Yeshaiah
writes:
     umesos chasan al kalah
     yasis alayikh Elokayikh.

But look at the first part of the pasuq, "Ki yiv'al bachur besulah..."
Seems that the "al" in "umesos chasan al kalah", is intended in a literal
spacial sense. After all, the pasuq is utilizing erotic imagery.

And it would be consistent that a mequbal in Tzefat use such imagery
for a Friday night tefillah.

But what would be grossly out of place then to sing Yasis Alayikh at a
chasunah. (Too close to "hakol yode'im kallah, lamah nikhneses lechupah".)

GCT!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Life isn't about finding yourself
mi...@aishdas.org        Life is about creating yourself.
http://www.aishdas.org                - Bernard Shaw
Fax: (270) 514-1507

In the second pasuq of the parashah (32:2) Moshe compares the intent of
his words "kise'irim alei-deshe, vekhirvivim alei-eisev".

So, I haven't fully researched what kinds of rain se'irim and revivim
refer to. Although se'irim is taken by meforshim in opposite directions
-- thin hairlike rain, in contrast to the heavy rain of revivim (think
"revava"). And so, the fine grass of deshe gets light rain, and the
strong grasses get the greater rain they need. Others take se'irim to
be heavy devistating rain -- think se'irim with a samekh, or goats.

But there are two other uses of this pair that hint there is something
fundamental in Tanakh imagery going on here. A little later, 33:2,
the second pasuq of the *next* parashah, Moshe Rabbeinu refers to locations
by these names:
        Vayomer
        Hashem miSinai ba
        vezarach meSei'ir lamo
        hofia` meiHar Paran
        ve'Asa meiRivevos Qodesh
(And just because I have to nod to the end of the pasuq: "... miymino
AishDas lamo".)

But the second and fourth locations associate with revelation are Sei'ir
and Rivevos-Qodesh. Coincidence?

And then, jumping way forward in Tanakh, there is the line we quote in
the Hagadah from Yechezqeil 16:7, "REVAVAH ketzemach hasadeh nesatikh...
uSE'AReikh tzimeiach..." And "kemetzach hasadeh" sounds like a reference
along the lines of the deshe and eisev of our pasuq.

No ideas what to make of it, though...

GCT!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             We look forward to the time
mi...@aishdas.org        when the power to love
http://www.aishdas.org   will replace the love of power.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                - William Ewart Gladstone

On 17/09/18 10:42, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:

> But look at the first part of the pasuq, "Ki yiv'al bachur besulah..."
> Seems that the "al" in "umesos chasan al kalah", is intended in a literal
> spacial sense. After all, the pasuq is utilizing erotic imagery.

I think you're reading way too much into this.  AFAIK the verb "liv`ol" 
in Tanach means "to marry", "to become the husband of", and is never 
used in the anatomic sense that it takes in the gemara.


-- 
Zev Sero            A prosperous and healthy 5779 to all
z...@sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 10:13:56PM -0400, Cantor Wolberg via Avodah wrote:
: He is the Rock, his work is perfect; for all his ways are justice;
: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. (Deut 32:1-4)

Alternatively, Tzur here is related to tzurah and tzayar. Refering to G-d
as the One Who Gave Form, or perhaps as the Template whose Form we strive
to duplicate.

This came up in vol 4, 1999, and R Yitzchak Zirkind z"l pointed us to
the Maharsha on Berakhos 10a for a source.

GCT!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             A cheerful disposition is an inestimable treasure.
mi...@aishdas.org        It preserves health, promotes convalescence,
http://www.aishdas.org   and helps us cope with adversity.
Fax: (270) 514-1507         - R' SR Hirsch, "From the Wisdom of Mishlei"

From today's OU Kosher Halacha  Yomis


Q. How should one wash their hands upon waking in the morning on Yom Kippur?



A. Shulchan Aruch (OC 613:1-2) writes that the prohibition of washing on
Yom Kippur applies only to one who washes for enjoyment. If one?s hands
become dirty, one is permitted to wash off the dirt. Similarly, one may
wash one?s hands upon waking in the morning to remove ru?ach ra?ah. Because
this encompasses an element of danger as well, washing to remove the ru?ach
ra?ah is considered even more of a necessity than washing off dirt.
Although the rest of the year, we are careful to wash our entire hand three
times, on Yom Kippur we wash three times only up until and including the
knuckles (i.e. until the palm), since strictly speaking that is enough to
remove ru?ach ra?ah. The Chazon Ish (Orchos Rabbeinu II, p. 207) held that
one need not be concerned if some water goes past the knuckles, since this
washing is not intended for enjoyment. After Yom Kippur, one should wash
the entire hand three times (Luach Davar B?ito cited by Piskei Teshuvos
624:1).


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From


https://thehalacha.com/wp-content/uploads/Vol14Issue10.pdf?utm_content=Prof.&;utm_source=VerticalResponse&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Click%2520here%2520to%2520download%2520%2522Burdening%2520the%2520Public%2522&utm_campaign=Burdening%2520the%2520Public


In many shuls, the question arises regarding waiting
when a rabbi is taking longer to daven Shemoneh Esrei and
people are getting edgy, since they have to make the train
to work or drive the kids to school. If there is a minyan in
shul does the public have to wait for the rabbi to come to
the minyan? Does the shatz have to wait for the rabbi? Is this
considered a burden to the public ? tircha d?tzibbur? How
many people need to be available to answer a shatz before
he begins chazaras hashatz? If one takes out the wrong sefer
Torah, should he put it back, or should he lein from that one
even though it will cause a delay in the completion of the
davening? There are seven aliyos on Shabbos morning; are
we allowed to add to this number? These and other issues
which may be a burden on the public will be dealt with in
this article.

Please see the above URL for a discussion of these issues.

I note the following from the article

Adding Aliyos

We generally call up seven people to the Torah on
Shabbos.74 It is permitted to add to this number,75 but one
should not burden the public with many additional aliyos.76
Since the custom today is that each person makes their
own brachah when getting an aliyah, it is not proper to add
brachos by adding aliyos.77 However, if there is a need to do
so, i.e., for a bris or chassan, it is permitted.78 In any case
there should not be more than ten aliyos.79 Some maintain
that the custom is to add aliyos after seven usual aliyos have
already been called up.80 Others have the custom not to add
to the aliyos on Shabbos.81

YL


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