Avodah Mailing List

Volume 37: Number 12

Tue, 19 Feb 2019

• 1. Safah Achas uDevarim Achadim? (Micha Berger)
• 2. Panim Chadashos in an era of mass production (Micha Berger)
• 3. The DICTA project (Zvi Lampel)
• 4. Eilah and Elu (Toby Katz)
• 5. Re: theologically motivated? (Toby Katz)
• 6. IVF and Gender Selection -- for a good cause (Micha Berger)
• 7. Re: IVF and Gender Selection -- for a good cause (Rich, Joel)
• 8. Re: Eilah and Elu (Zev Sero)

The time scale is all wrong, but this is notably similar to what we would
expect of pre-migdal culture.

https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/cave-art-symbolic-language

    Big Think

    Did ancient cave artists share a global language?
    The same 32 symbols show up in prehistoric European cave art.
    Frank Jacobs
    13 February, 2019

     * Many of these symbols are found in caves in Africa, Asia, Australia
       and America as well.

     * At least 40,000 years old, the set of symbols may have been a
       universal communications tool.

     * Among these symbols is the iconic hashtag.

Is seems all over the world, the symbols alongside the pictures of cave
art is surprisingly consistent. At the URL, there is a map of the world,
showing which symbols were found in cave art where. Along with theories
as to why.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Problems are not stop signs,
mi...@aishdas.org        they are guidelines.
http://www.aishdas.org           - Robert H. Schuller
Fax: (270) 514-1507

SA CM 360:5 talks about acquiring an item after gezeilah through a shinui
that is not chozer libriaso -- no yi'ush needed.

Of coure I had starts at AhS, where it's se'if 7.

Examples: Stealing wood and nailing it together to make a boat is chozer
lebriaso (AhS: ssuming the wood was stolen in ship plank form) because
one can pull the nails out and restore them.

If one steal sand and make bricks, one are not qoneh -- because a hammer
can return them to sand. (AhS has a yeish omerim that limits this to
bricks dried in the sun; kiln baked bricks can't be broken back down
to sand.re not qoneh because one can melt the coin back down.

SA s' 6: But the following shinuyim are qonim:

- One steals wood and planes it smooth, cuts it or hollows it out
  to make keilim,
- Steals wood and dyes or bleaches it
- Steals a brick and turns it into saned
- Destroys coins

Because even if you turn the metal back into a coin it's panim chadashos.

First, a tangent.... Notice how entropy-related the halakhah ends up being.
A shinui that matters increases entropy. If you actuall make an item
out of something of lower entropy -- a brick from dirt -- it's reversible
because entropy naturally increases.

The AhS (again, se'if 7) spends time defining panim chadashos.

1- Shitah Mequbetzes: because you can't make it with exactly the same
look as the original.
2- Rashi: ... exactly the same width or length

And even if you used the same stamp, the appearance would be a little
different (AhS: even according to Rashi, kakh nir'eh li).

Going back to my entropy detour: because you aren't restoring it to the
same low-entropy state.

But here's the question I am really interested in:

I had gotten into this thinking that panim chadashos had to do with
identity. Even if it the sand were reformed into a brick, it would be
a new brick made of the same stand.

But if it's about appearnace (tzurah, mar'eh according to the SM or
dimensions according to Rashi), then is this still true? Aren't today's
mass produced items so consistent that a human can't tell them apart?
And therefore if the same metal was made using the same die to make
a coin, there would be no change. Seems to me.

And if so, would the halakhah change? (Not that a gazlan getting ahold
of the same mass production equipment to remake the same item as the
owner originally did is all that likely...)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             One who kills his inclination is as though he
mi...@aishdas.org        brought an offering. But to bring an offering,
http://www.aishdas.org   you must know where to slaughter and what
Fax: (270) 514-1507      parts to offer.        - R' Simcha Zissel Ziv

Ami magazine (issue 405) interviewed Dr. Moshe Koppel, who is developing a  
valuable free website program ??(dicta.org.il), 5 tools of which are  
available now. I tried out its Nakdan program, which inserts ?nikud into  
non-nikud texts, and I am very, very impressed. Here is how the website  
describes its tools:?

The DICTA Bible search engine allows users to easily search for words and  
phrases in the Bible, ?with no need to worry about spelling and word  
forms. Search results of one or more words will ?include verses in which  
the searched words appear, with appropriate variations of spelling and  
?word form. ?
?
Results appear in order of relevance, alternatively you can choose to have  
them presented in the customary order of biblical books.?

NAKDAN
Automatically add nikud (vocalization) to any modern, poetic or classical  
Hebrew text.?

https://nakdan.dicta.org.il

TIBERIAS STYLISTIC CLASSIFIER FOR THE HEBREW BIBLE
Define two or more categories of texts that interest you (e.g., "early  
Biblical Hebrew" and "late ?Biblical Hebrew") and specify some examples of  
each category (e.g., Joshua and Judges as ??"early" and Esther and Ezra as  
"late"). Dicta's classifier will assign any new text that you select  
??(for instance, Ruth or Joel) to its most likely category, based on the  
key stylistic markers of each type. ?

SYNOPSIS BUILDER
Synopsis Builder aligns two or more versions of the same (arbitrarily  
long) text, highlighting differences between versions and matching up  
parallel words, including variant spellings and synonyms.?

COMING SOON
Flag corrupted words
Identify text origin? ?
Expand abbreviations
Source criticism? ?
Find parallel texts
Forgery detection

Zvi Lampel

-- 
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

What is the difference between "eileh" (aleph-lamed-hei) and "eilu"
(aleph-lamed-vov)?? Both mean "these."? My husband wants to know.? I don't
believe there is any difference in meaning, but he thinks there must be.? I
think the difference might just be stylistic (like the difference between
"lahem" and "lamo" which both mean "to them" except "lamo" is poetic).? Or
perhaps there is some grammatical or dikduk difference, like the beged
kefes letters that get a dagesh or don't get a dagesh, depending on what is
else is around them.? There is also another word that means "these" -- the
word "halalu."? What determines which "these" is used when?

--Toby Katzt6...@aol.com
=============
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 In?Avodah Digest, Vol 36, Issue 63 dated 5/24/2018  "Rich, Joel" <JR...@sibson.com> wrote:


Subject: [Avodah] theologically motivated ?

>> From "Scalia Speaks" : "The religious person, the truly religious
>> person, cannot divide all his policy preferences into those that
>> are theologically motivated and those that proceed from purely
>> naturalistic inclinations. Can any of us say whether he would be
>> the sort of moral creature he is without a belief in a supreme
>> Lawgiver, and hence in a Supreme Law?"
Me: how would you answer this question? How would an atheist? What would be
an acceptable answer for a religious person to give if asked at a judicial
confirmation hearing in the US? In Israel? <<
KT
Joel Rich
?>>>>>

[Just found this old post from May in my "send later" folder, long neglected!? Here is what I meant to write then, always timely]
There is no constitutional requirement, no legal requirement, no ethical
requirement and no logical requirement for each individual to erect a wall
of separation between church and state in his heart and mind.
As a sociological matter I note that there are certain Modern Orthodox Jews
or YU types who suffer from what I have called bifurcated minds.? They hold
two mutually exclusive sets of beliefs and values, one set for chol and the
other set for kodesh.? You see a lot of that in Teaneck and in Hollywood,
FL.? But the bifurcated mind is, as I say, not at all required to be a good
citizen of the United States or to be a good judge or a good legislator and
certainly not to be a mensh.
To give specific examples of what I mean, the bifurcated people are
"personally opposed" to abortion and gay marriage but take it as a point of
pride to be in favor of legalized abortion throughout nine months of
pregnancy and in favor of legalized gay marriage.? The bifurcated people
are opposed to teaching anything in the public schools about the origin of
life or the origin of the universe that even remotely smacks of a Designer
or anything other than random chance.? They are opposed even though in one
half of their minds (the Shabbos half) they do believe in a Creator.? But
this must not be even hinted at in public school or in the university or
any public space, oh no!

--Toby Katzt6...@aol.com
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R Asher Weiss recently fielded a question about selecting the gender of
a baby being produced via IVF. The parents' motive is that as they already
have two girls, they (perumably: the husband) could fulfil pirya verivya
if they could insure the next one was a boy.

He permits, but says PvR that does not create an obligation.

Also, the sho'el mentions that RSZA thought that it was wrong to do
IVF in order to choose a gender, to which RAW notably does not make a
comment that made it to this authorized presentation, even though the
aside from the sho'el did. I would take that to mean ascent. But in
the sh'el's case, IVF is required either way, the question is only
about shoosing a boy.

Here is R Akiva Dershowitz's translation? summary? of the teshuvah,
from https://en.tvunah.org/2019/02/19/ivf-and-gender-selection/

    Tvunah in English
    Beit Midrash for Birurei Halachah Binyan Zion
    Under the Leadership of Maran HaRav Asher Weiss Shlita

    Ivf and gender selection

    Posted by: Rabbi Akiva Dershowitz   In: Medical Law and Ethics,
    Tags: IVF

    Question:
    Would there be any halachic/ethical issues with one who is performing
    IVF due to infertility to request a specific gender?
    I've heard that R SZ Auerbach thought it to be unethical for a couple
    to undergo IVF specifically to have a specific gender, however what
    would be with one who is anyway undergoing IVF?
    (We currently have 2 girls BH and would like to be mekayem Pru Urvu.)

    Answer:

    While it would not be an obligation in order to fulfill the mitzvah of
    Pru Urvu, it would be permissible to choose the gender of the baby for
    one who is anyway undergoing IVF treatment.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             When a king dies, his power ends,
mi...@aishdas.org        but when a prophet dies, his influence is just
http://www.aishdas.org   beginning.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                    - Soren Kierkegaard

R Asher Weiss recently fielded a question about selecting the gender of
a baby being produced via IVF. The parents' motive is that as they already
have two girls, they (perumably: the husband) could fulfil pirya verivya
if they could insure the next one was a boy.

He permits,
:/::::::::::::::::::
Listen here

https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/918137/rabbi-mordechai-torczyner/does-the-artificial-uterus-change-the-halachic-definition-of-maternity/
Rabbi Mordechai Torczyner-Does the Artificial Uterus Change the Halachic Definition of Maternity?

Iirc R Torchyner says the general consensus is no sex selection till 4 kids
Kt
Joel Rich

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On 18/2/19 11:09 pm, Toby Katz via Avodah wrote:
> What is the difference between "eileh" (aleph-lamed-hei) and "eilu" 
> (aleph-lamed-vov)?? Both mean "these."? My husband wants to know.? I 
> don't believe there is any difference in meaning, but he thinks there 
> must be.? I think the difference might just be stylistic (like the 
> difference between "lahem" and "lamo" which both mean "to them" except 
> "lamo" is poetic).? Or perhaps there is some grammatical or dikduk 
> difference, like the beged kefes letters that get a dagesh or don't get 
> a dagesh, depending on what is else is around them.? There is also 
> another word that means "these" -- the word "halalu."? What determines 
> which "these" is used when?

Eileh is Biblical, Eilu and Halalu are Mishnaic.


-- 
Zev Sero            A prosperous and healthy 5779 to all
z...@sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper


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