Avodah Mailing List

Volume 37: Number 18

Tue, 12 Mar 2019

• 1. Re: Where was the Mishkan stored? (hank)
• 2. Re: derech psak (Ben Bradley)
• 3. Re: derech psak (Rich, Joel)
• 4. Re: derech psak (Rich, Joel)
• 5. Q. What is included in the mitzvah of kibud av v?aim (honoring parents)? (Professor L. Levine)
• 6. Re: Does "ben" mean "son" or "child"? (Akiva Miller)
• 7. Is a child required to pay for food and clothing for his parents? (Professor L. Levine)
• 8. Can a parent be mochel (relinquish) the honor that is due to them? (Professor L. Levine)

R. Micha Berger wrote:
?It is possible that Mishkan Shilo had both -- kerashim surrounded by
stone, so that the wals were both authentic to the tzivui in Shemos and
yet permanent??

Chaim Manaster notes that regardless of whether the kerashim were encased
in the	stone walls or the walls were only of atone and the kerashim were
ganuz somewhere, the calculus of the overhangs of the yerios will not be
the same as in the Mishkan since the stone walls would have been much
thicker than the one amoh of the kerashim alone. So we must assume that the
overhang details were not part of the essential tzuras haMishkan and were
not me?akeiv if they were not the same as in the Midbar. One could then
wonder if in the Mishkan itself whether the 28 (30) amoh width of the lower
covering (yerios Izim) were meAkeiv as well despite the specific dimensions
given in the chumash (which of course they followed) which would be a major
chidush IF true. Ie., was the given dimension of 28 (30) amohs the ikar, or
the resulting details of the desired overhang the ikar which then  governed
the width specified. The only  covering that would not be affected by the
width of the stone walls was th
 e one of Trchashim (and eilim) as it only covered the interior dimension of the Mishkan even in the Midbar.

Kol tuv, 
Chaim Manaster


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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'RARR opined that this is because lomdus makes it hard to pasqen. (And
his theory seems to make a lot of sense to me.) In lomdus the focus of
your learning is to see how both sides make sense. The better you are
at it, the harder it is going to be to pick sides. Brisker chumeros,
being machmir to be chosheish for all shitos, is a natural consequence.
But pasqening requires picking a favorite. And it requires giving some
level of credance to precedent, not only to how compelling one finds
the sevara.'

In more general terms I've never heard or seen anyone accept a posek or
otherwise on the basis of his shita in learning. It seems to be more a
question of overall breadth and depth of learning plus aptitude for halacha
l'maaseh in the eyes of contemporaries.
So I'm not sure why anyone would accept R Weiss as a posek based on his
attitude to Brisker lomdus. That's just not the criteria by which the olam
is machshiv a posek. Even at RIETS.

Ben





s

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> Lomdus isn't usually how pesaq is done. RARakkefetR has repeatedly pointed
> out that RCBrisker wasn't the poseiq in Brisk. When he took the job of
> Rav, he convince R Simcha Zelig Riger to come along. Where RSZR got the
> job as Brisker dayan.

> RARR opined that this is because lomdus makes it hard to pasqen. (And
> his theory seems to make a lot of sense to me.) In lomdus the focus of
> your learning is to see how both sides make sense. The better you are
> at it, the harder it is going to be to pick sides. Brisker chumeros,
> being machmir to be chosheish for all shitos, is a natural consequence....

Yes I've heard him say that many times and it is the heart of my issue,
I don't see why being able to see the 70 sides should be an issue
in psak. As the Ramban famously said there are no slam dunk proofs
in Halacha. Life is inherently uncertain and one must learn to make
decisions in this context. If anything I'd prefer someone who can see
multiple approaches yet select one over someone who is so sure they are
right they can't see anything else.

The inability to do so may be a personality thing or a process-but if
you accept that there is uncertainty but still need to be chosheesh for
minority opinions,you still need some algorithms to determine how and
when to do so (unless you take a schichina shoreh non definable approach)

Kt
Joel rich

In more general terms I've never heard or seen anyone accept a posek or
otherwise on the basis of his shita in learning. It seems to be more a
question of overall breadth and depth of learning plus aptitude for halacha
l'maaseh in the eyes of contemporaries.
///////////////
I understand that's the case, I just don't understand why. For example if
you lived back in the day and your tanna was doreish klal prat uklal to
derive Halacha , how could you be accepting rulings from someone who did
not but rather used ribui umiyut ? Wouldn't that likely lead to tartei
dsatrei. Of course if you say that they already knew the Halacha and were
just looking for something to pin it on this is less of a question except
where did the original come from?
Kt
Joel rich
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From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis


Q. What is included in the mitzvah of kibud av v?aim (honoring parents)?



A. The mitzvah of honoring parents includes serving them food and drink,
helping them get dressed and come and go (if they need assistance), making
sure their home and clothing are clean, as well as shopping and cooking for
them. In general, the mitzvah entails taking care of all of the needs of
one?s parents. Sefer Chareidim (Mitzvas Essai, 1) writes that inherent in
the mitzvah is that children think of their parents as outstanding and
distinguished individuals. One should stand up for parents when they enter
the room. Chazal give examples of honoring parents, even to an excessive
and extreme degree (see Kiddushin 31b).

There is an additional mitzvah to revere one?s parents. Shulchan Aruch (YD
240:2) gives the following examples of reverence: not sitting in a parent?s
seat, contradicting them, or calling them by their name.


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.
I had asked:
> It seems to be a universal practice that the Mah Nishtanah is
> given to the youngest "ben" (however you want to translate it)
> at the table. Obviously, we are excluding those who are too
> young, and those who for some other reason are incapable of
> saying it. But does anyone know how this came to devolve upon
> the *youngest*?

I found a source! For this information, I thank the Haggada Yaynah
Shel Torah by Binyamin Adler (all-Hebrew, 1978 Feldheim)

In the Haggada section, prior to Mah Nishtana, his directions state,
"v'katan hamesubim shoel - and the smallest/youngest of the diners
asks". In the Halachos section, #3:15:10, he gives his source: "ayen
Chayei Adam klal 130, v'od". Before I quote the Chayei Adam, let's see
how this is phrased elsewhere.

Mechaber 473:7 lists several options for Mah Nishtana, and the
descending order of preference is clear: tinok asks spontaneously /
father teaches the ben to ask / wife asks / one asks himself / even
talmidei chachamim ask each other

According to Aruch Hashulchan 473:21, the order of preference is: son
asks spontaneously / father teaches son to ask / daughter asks / wife
or someone else asks

But Chayei Adam 130:7 gives this list: tinok / ben / friend / wife

There are many diyukim one can find by comparing these lists
carefully. For example, the Aruch Hashulchan unambiguously puts the
son and daughter at two different points on the list, and would answer
my Subject line by saying that "ben means son". It is also noteworthy
where each of these sources places the wife.

But finally, to answer my question about the source for "the
*youngest* at the table" -- One can argue whether the Mechaber
considers "tinok" and "ben" to be synonyms, but the Chayei Adam
clearly gives preference to "tinok" over "ben", and what could be the
difference if not age?

Akiva Miller

From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis


Q. Is a child required to pay for food and clothing for his parents?



A. Shulchan Aruch (YD 240:5) writes that although a child is required to
feed and clothe his parents, the expense must be borne by the parents.
However, if the parents cannot support themselves, the children are
obligated to provide the funds (if they are capable of doing so). If they
refuse, a Jewish court of law may force him to do so. Ordinarily, a Jewish
court does not coerce someone to honor a parent (e.g., to stand up for a
father or mother), because beis din does not coerce for mitzvos that have a
specified reward (honoring parents is rewarded with long life). Why is
kibud av v?aim different? The Aruch Hashulchan (YD 240:6) explains that
beis din has the authority to coerce members of society to maintain social
welfare, and children have a moral obligation to provide for parents who
are destitute.


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From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis


Q. Can a parent be mochel (relinquish) the honor that is due to them?



A. Yes. Shulchan Aruch (YD 240:19) writes that it is forbidden for a parent
to be overly strict regarding the honor that is due to them. If a parent is
strict, the child will find it difficult to fulfill his duties and the
parent will be causing the child to sin. Rather, a parent should be
forgiving and turn a blind eye and even relinquish their honor if
necessary. Rebbi Akiva Eiger (ibid.) cites the Radvaz who writes that if a
parent relinquishes his honor, this will save the child from being punished
if he does not display the proper honor, but if the child does honor his
parent, he will still be rewarded.

The Birkei Yosef (YD 240:13) proves that a parent can also be mochel the
fear that is due to him. Parents may permit their children to sit in their
seat or to contradict them. However, even though parents can forgo their
honor, they cannot be mochel on their embarrassment or on their pain, and
embarrassing a parent is always forbidden.


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