Avodah Mailing List

Volume 37: Number 66

Thu, 15 Aug 2019

• 1. Re: R Moshe Feinstein as posek hador (Micha Berger)
• 2. Re: Boray M'oray Ha'esh on Tisha B'Av (Micha Berger)
• 3. Re: Chop a Mitzvah? (Rich, Joel)
• 4. Chop a Mitzvah (Joseph Kaplan)
• 5. Re: Chop a Mitzvah (Rich, Joel)
• 6. Re: Boray M'oray Ha'esh on Tisha B'Av (allan.en...@gmail.com)
• 7. Re: Chop a Mitzvah (Rich, Joel)
• 8. Re: Showering during the 9 Days (Akiva Miller)
• 9. Re: Boray M'oray Ha'esh on Tisha B'Av (Micha Berger)

On Wed, Aug 07, 2019 at 06:13:09PM +0000, Ben Bradley via Avodah wrote:
> I've come across a event described in a couple of medical halacha books
> which I find intriguing for reasons unrelated to medical halacha. In 1948
> there was an outbreak of meningitis in Jerusalem with a limited supply
> of penicillin, less than the amount needed to treat all the present
> cases. Rav Herzog, the chief rabbi, called Rav Moshe Feinstein in New
> York to ask how to prioritise the use of life saving penicillin...

> Why did R Herzog not ask the chazon ish or other posek in EY? ...
> And, if it was a pure question of pure seniority/shoulders in psak...

It may have been at least partly because someone whose qehillah was
in the US was somewhat less exposed to accusations of bias. Or, for
that matter, less impacted by actual unconscious bias.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

On Wed, Aug 07, 2019 at 07:58:09AM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> The whole rest of the year, a full Havdala is done in shul, but most people
> are not yotzay with it, preferring to say it themselves at home. I can't
> speak for anyone else, but my reasons for saying Havdala at home include:
> being motzi my family...

Why is it so rare for women to make havdalah for themselves?

(Do you know a reason that doesn't involve the word "mustache"?)

And whatever that reason is, does it apply to saying borei me'orei ha'eish
on Tish'ah beAv?

Because I think the implications of existing minhag is that the men do
borei me'orei ha'eish with berov am, and their families light an avuqah
candle and make the berakhos themselves at home.

Lemaaseh, I made borei me'orei ha'eish at home between getting my
qinos and crocs and leaving for shul. But only because you posted
something that made me think about it.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   life which is required to be exchanged for it,
Author: Widen Your Tent      immediately or in the long run.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                 - Henry David Thoreau

> 
>> On 14/8/19 10:39 am, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
>> Thought experiments: There?s a mitzvah that?s equally incumbent on a
>> group that you are part of:
>> 1) do you ?chop? (grab) the mitzvah (perhaps show how important/dear it
>> is) or let someone else do it (perhaps showing humility)?
> 
> If there's a rush of others to do it, then "Hatzenuim moshchim es
> yedeihem."  If nobody is stepping forward then "Bemakom she'ein anashim".
> 
> 
> 
> --
> so what about the case where a minyan is forming up at a minyan factory and there is no sap gabbai? Do u chap being Shatz at the appointed hour
Kt
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?There is a famous in YU circles story where RYBS, back when he
was Berel, got sick, and R' Chaim told R Moshe to turn on
the light so that the doctor could see better. R Moshe hesitated,
and RCB called him an apiqoreis for doing so. With the explanaiton
that the question wasn't about being meiqil in Shabbs, but about
being machmir in piquach nefesh. They ask why RCB didn't do it
himself; but bekhol zos, no one expected the doctor to.?

The way I heard the story in YU many decades ago, it was, in fact, RCB who
turned on the light, and there was a lesson to Rav Moshe but he was not
called an apikores. And while we?ll never know what really happened, I
prefer my version. 

Joseph

Sent from my iPhone

> The way I heard the story in YU many decades ago, it was, in fact, RCB
> who turned on the light, and there was a lesson to Rav Moshe but he
> was not called an apikores. 

Iirc it was the Dayan of brisk (r Simcha Zelig) who rcb directed to turn on
the light after r ms hesitated. I always assumed that and addition to just
perhaps being closer to the light the lesson was that this really was
Halacha lmaaseh as certified by the Dayan.  
Kt
Joel rich
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Thank you.

I have never understood why, when Tisha B'av is after Shabbos, we don't
make havdala on wine after the seuda (before shkia), which is permissible
every shabbos after plag hamincha (without that candle, of course), and
then do borei me'orei ho'eish after nacht. What is the advantage of waiting
till Sunday night?
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> On Aug 14, 2019, at 3:26 PM, Rich, Joel <JR...@sibson.com> wrote:
>> The way I heard the story in YU many decades ago, it was, in fact,
>> RCB who turned on the light, and there was a lesson to Rav Moshe but he
>> was not called an apikores.

> IIRC it was the Dayan of brisk (r Simcha Zelig) who rcb directed
> to turn on the light after r ms hesitated. I always assumed that and
> addition to just perhaps being closer to the light the lesson was that
> this really was Halacha lmaaseh as certified by the Dayan.

Confirming my version of the story see page 27 of Nefesh Harav 

Kt
Joel rich

.
From R' Joseph Kaplan:

> 2. R? Micha repeats the story told in the Frimer?s? article about
> the Rav and the woman who wanted to wear a tallit. ...
> ...
> Second, I was not a talmid of the Rav but I did discuss the story
> with several people who were his talmidim or who knew him well. A
> number told me that while the Rav would, of course, not see any
> value in wearing a tallit without tzitzit, the fact that he would
> put a women from his Boston community through such a test rather
> than handle it in a much more gentle and sensitive manner (can you
> imagine how she felt at the end if the story is accurate) is
> difficult to accept...

People are entitled to their feelings, and if "several people who were his
talmidim or who knew him well" feel that way about this story, I cannot
argue with that fact.

I simply want to add *my* feeling, which is that the Rav DID handle it in a
very gentle and sensitive manner. In fact, every time I've read the story,
I've been impressed with this approach, the mark of a master educator.

The woman approached him, and he suggested a practical experiment. Based on
the woman's own report of the experiment's results, he was able to offer
his own interpretation of those results. Though not explicit in the
published story, I would imagine that the Rav allowed her to continue
wearing the tzitzis-less tallis if she had wanted to, thus continuing the
"magnificent nature of her religious experience in wearing the tallit". He
simply forbade her from adding tzitzis to that tallis.

We don't know her reaction to that final step. But even if her reaction was
negative, I can't imagine how the Rav could have handled this more gently
than he did.

Akiva Miller
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On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 09:05:21PM +0100, allan.engel--- via Avodah wrote:
> I have never understood why, when Tisha B'av is after Shabbos, we don't
> make havdala on wine after the seuda (before shkia), which is permissible
> every shabbos after plag hamincha (without that candle, of course)...

Permissable, but undesirable. The SA (OC 293:3) writes:
   Someone who is anoos, such as if he has to enter the dark at the
   techum for a devar mitzvah...

("Enter the dark" was my attempt to render "lehachshikh".)

Arguably 9 beAv is equally lidvar mitzvah. But still, this doesn't sound
like it is definitely the better solution, and I am guessing the minhag
is what it is because it is indeed better to wait.

Another thing is that I see the AS places havdalah after maariv in that
situation (continuing from where I left off):
    he can daven for motza"sh from pelag haminchah onward and make
    havdalah immediately -- but he shouldn't make the berakhah on the
    candle. And similarly he is prohibited from doing melakhah until
    tzeis hakokhavim.

And after maariv... I am guessing that would qualify as tosefes 9 beAv.
But that assumes the order is davqa

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Strength does not come from winning. Your
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   struggles develop your strength When you go
Author: Widen Your Tent      through hardship and decide not to surrender,
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF    that is strength.        - Arnold Schwarzenegger


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