Avodah Mailing List

Volume 38: Number 66

Mon, 17 Aug 2020

• 1. birchat hanehenin (Rich, Joel)
• 2. Re: birchat hanehenin (Zev Sero)
• 3. Re: birchat hanehenin (Micha Berger)
• 4. Business with an Akum (Alexander Seinfeld)
• 5. Birchat hamazon (Joel Rich)
• 6. Re'eih vs Shema (Micha Berger)

If one had full intent to be yotzeih with another's birchat hanehenin and then did not eat, is it a bracha l'vatala for him?

KT
Joel Rich

THIS MESSAGE IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE 
ADDRESSEE.  IT MAY CONTAIN PRIVILEGED OR CONFIDENTIAL 
INFORMATION THAT IS EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE.  Dissemination, 
distribution or copying of this message by anyone other than the addressee is 
strictly prohibited.  If you received this message in error, please notify us 
immediately by replying: "Received in error" and delete the message.  
Thank you.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20200811/d584b1e6/attachment-0001.html>

On 11/8/20 5:37 pm, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
> If one had full intent to be yotzeih with another?s birchat hanehenin 
> and then did not eat, is it a bracha l?vatala for him?

I don't see how it can be.  The bracha had effect for the person who 
said it, so it was not wasted.

-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone a *healthy* and happy summer
z...@sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 09:37:14PM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
> If one had full intent to be yotzeih with another's birchat hanehenin
> and then did not eat, is it a bracha l'vatala for him?

Berakhah levatalah sounds like a description of the "cheftza" of the
berakhah. Not gavra-specific.

And what would be levatalah, the mevoreikh's kavvanah to be motzi
him?

Safeiq berakhos lehaqeil is sometimes explained as safeiq deOraisa
lechumerah where the deOraisa is sheim Hashem lashav. Along those lines,
one could theorize that as long as the sheim wasn't said lashav, it's
not a berakhah levatalah.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 What you get by achieving your goals
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   is not as important as
Author: Widen Your Tent      what you become by achieving your goals.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF            - Henry David Thoreau

One is not permitted to do any kind of business with an Akum
(idol-worshipper) on the day of their festival (nor 3 days prior in the
Land of Israel) - Rambam Hil. Avodah Zara Ch. 9, Shulchan Aruch Yoreh Deah
148.1.

Question - Today, if I know a shop owner is a religious Xian, am I allowed
to shop there on Sunday? Or if I know he is a religious Hindu, do I need
to mark my calendar with all of the Hindu festivals and avoid his shop on
those days? What about a traditional Chinese person on Chinese New Year?
Or a Catholic on All Souls Day? If so, is there any halachic literature
that lists all of the dates currently forbidden?

(I?m also not allowed to sell to him on his holidays, and if I do (in
error), I?m not allowed to enjoy the profits of that sale.)

Alexander Seinfeld

A group of people are having Shabbos meal together in the dining room. They
all get up to clear the main course dishes and bring them into the kitchen.
The dessert flatware and glasses remain on the table  Must they say birchat
hamazon immediately upon return to the table?
Kt
Joel rich

Because we say the words from Va'eschanan multiple times a day, I have
heard (pun intended, sadly) a lot about shema when it means something
more than the stimulation of neurons in my inner ear. Like the English
word "listen", "shema" connotes paying attention, obeying ("eiqev asher
shamata beQoli"), etc...

So, what do we get from the use of "re'eih", as in the title of this
week's parashah?

In the past couple of days, I cam up with a theory about the difference
between shemi'ah and re'iyah, but want to vet it with the chevrah.

Shema introduces a theological fact we can only accept in the abstract.
We don't even fully understand how One, Indivisible and Unique Hashem is.
We are told to accept ol malkhus Shamayim on this basis, but the fact
itself is one we can apprehend, not experience.

Whereas re'eih introduces the basis of bitachon. It's a way of viewing the
world and framing our experience -- seeing Yad Hashem in events. Quite
different than an abstract truth.

(This seems to be consistent with "ein domeh shemi'ah lere'iyah". "Re'iyah"
is something I can know first-hand.)



Ta chazi in the bavli seems to also fit this pattern:

Berakhos 58a: Rav Sheishes says to a min, "ta chazi" that I am brighter
than you, proceding to show he figured out when the king would come. But
then, the point was made at the beginning ot the story that R Sheishes
was blind, so ht emay have been using the phrase pointed.

Eiruvin 6b: ta chazi that the gates of Neharda'ah couldn't be locked. (And
thus Shemu'el doesn't require they be locked in order to permit carrying.)

Etc... All cases of "go and check for yourself". Nothing at all like "ta
shema", which introduces learning a teaching.

And of course "puq chazi".

But in the Yerushalmi and the Zohar, "ta chazi" is used the way "ta shema"
is in Bavel. So, maybe I am just reading too much into Bavli idiom.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 "The worst thing that can happen to a
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   person is to remain asleep and untamed."
Author: Widen Your Tent             - Rabbi Simcha Zissel Ziv, Alter of Kelm
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF


------------------------------



_______________________________________________
Avodah mailing list
Avo...@lists.aishdas.org
http://www.aishdas.org/lists/avodah
http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/avodah-aishdas.org


------------------------------


**************************************

Send Avodah mailing list submissions to
	avodah@lists.aishdas.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://www.aishdas.org/lists/avodah/avodahareivim-membership-agreement/


You can reach the person managing the list at
	avodah-owner@lists.aishdas.org


When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Avodah digest..."

A list of common acronyms is available at
        http://www.aishdas.org/lists/avodah/avodah-acronyms
(They are also visible in the web archive copy of each digest.)