Avodah Mailing List

Volume 39: Number 1

Sat, 02 Jan 2021

• 1. the Brisker derech (Rich, Joel)
• 2. Re: the Brisker derech (Micha Berger)
• 3. hinnini muchan umzuman (Rich, Joel)
• 4. Re: the Brisker derech (Rich, Joel)
• 5. The Real Story of XMAS and New Years (Prof. Levine)
• 6. Re: Is it permissible to eat while walking outside through a marketplace? (Micha Berger)
• 7. A Modern Lesson in Dan Lekaf Zekhus (Micha Berger)
• 8. Techeiles and Bal Tosif (Rafael Jason Hecht)

My guess is the Brisker derech is not the final approach to Talmudic
analysis. (For me, it's too Boolean in trying to explain the underlying
halachic data.) I've been thinking that a more multivariate approach will
eventually be constructed; perhaps with some assistance from AI, which
could yield further insights into the ratzon hashem. (See what happened
with alphago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaGo
.)
Thoughts?
KT
Joel Rich

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On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 06:48:03AM +0000, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
> My guess is the Brisker derech is not the final approach to Talmudic
> analysis. (For me, it's too Boolean in trying to explain the underlying
> halachic data.) I've been thinking that a more multivariate approach
> will eventually be constructed; perhaps with some assistance from AI,
...

I don't know about AI... AI today requires training data sets, and
doesn't explain how a new example is more like one side of the "learned"
distinction or the other. So, if you have a data set but you can't
articulate how to divide it into categories (eg which of these are
"a"s in various fonts) what is called AI today could implement many
such categorizations. You can come up with more examples of an existing
distinction, or perform different behaviors by categorizing the current
situation is on this side or that of a distinction. But you still don't
get an explanation of that pattern. I'm not sure how its usable in
this context.



But there already is a derivative of Brisker Derekh that is less binary.

It is common to focus on the difference between Brisk and Telzhe with
the truism that "In Brisk they ask 'Vus?'; in Telzhe they ask 'Fahr vus?'"

In Brisk, halakhah is one's first principles. You use halakhah to
explain the world, and would never use the world to explain halakhah.
So, to a stereotypical Brisker, baalus is defined by the set of halakhos
of qinyan, geneivah, yerushah, han'ah and issur hana'ah, etc...

Very different than the beginning of Shaarei Yosher shaar 5. R Shimon says
that property is a concept inherent in the human condition. The halakhos
of baalus are about navigating that pre-existing concept in a holy way.

But there is a second difference... Hitztarfus. Brisk focuses on chaqiros
and tzevei dinim, and ways of dividing up the din or shitos by finding
which one factor drives each position. And so much of Brisker Derekh is
about tools for identifying those factors.

But R Shimon also discusses halakhos that emerge from the hitztarfus,
the convergance of factors.

See RYGB's examples at the tail of <https://www.aishdas.org/rygb/derachim.htm>:
shi'abud haguf (personal lien) and acharekha.


Between the added ability to inspire by letting halakhah tie to experience
and the zeitgeist's move away from reductionism there are grounds for
giving more attention to this alternative.


PS: I called R Shimon's derekh a derivative of Brisker Derekh because
when R Shimon got to Volozhin, he attached himself to a chaburah run
by this bachur 6 years older than him that was generating so much
excitement. And only later became closed to the Netziv. So, R' Shimon
learned Brisker derekh early on -- early for both him and the derekh.

I see R Shimon's derekh as taking what he learned about lomdus from
the future R Chaim, and translating it from the worldview RYBS depicts
in Ish haHalakhah into that more at home in Mussar and Mussar-derived
hashkafos like that of Telzh. Where Da'as (as Telzhe shaped the word)
and thus "Fahr vus?" play a central role.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 The Maharal of Prague created a golem, and
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   this was a great wonder. But it is much more
Author: Widen Your Tent      wonderful to transform a corporeal person into a
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF    "mensch"!     -Rav Yisrael Salanter

I seem to recall a story of a gadol who was so opposed to saying hinnini
muchan umzuman that when someone asked to borrow his lulav and started to
say this, he took the lulav back.

Does this sound familiar?  Any details appreciated
Kt
Joel  rich

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I don't know about AI... AI today requires training data sets, and
doesn't explain how a new example is more like one side of the "learned"
distinction or the other. So, if you have a data set but you can't
articulate how to divide it into categories (eg which of these are
"a"s in various fonts) what is called AI today could implement many
such categorizations. You can come up with more examples of an existing
distinction, or perform different behaviors by categorizing the current
situation is on this side or that of a distinction. But you still don't
get an explanation of that pattern. I'm not sure how its usable in
this context.

------------------------------------
AIUI that's a general AI issue that's being worked on-getting AI to explain itself (in the alphago case what made it "think" of new strategies
KT
Joel Rich
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Listen to the talk at

https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?a=5768

given by Rabbi Lawrence Kelemen and learn what XMAS is really all 
about.  This talk is an eye opener. YL

Rabbi Lawrence Kelemen is a Professor of Education at Neve 
Yerushalayim College of Jewish Studies for Women in Jerusalem, where 
he lectures undergraduate and graduate students in modern and 
medieval philosophy. After receiving his undergraduate degree from 
UCLA, Rabbi Kelemen continued with his graduate studies at Harvard 
University, and later completed 12 years of post-graduate field 
research in the Middle East. Rabbi Kelemen brings to his lectures and 
writings his impressive academic background, as well as a myriad of 
life experiences, including those of a newspaper editor, skiing 
instructor and radio anchorman. Now an accomplished lecturer and 
author, Rabbi Kelemen electrifies parents, teachers , and university 
students across North and South America, Europe and the Middle with 
his wit, humor, wisdom and gifts of insight into the essence of 
living a meaningful life. Rabbi Kelemen is the author of Permission 
to Believe (1990) Permission to Receive.

On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 06:45:21AM -0500, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> We have our work cut out for us. Each case has to be investigated
> carefully. For a long time, I had thought that the halachos of Shinui Makom
> (the requirement to repeat a bracha rishona because one left the place
> where he was eating) was related to society and formal dining, and
> therefore might change when eating habits changed...

This gives me an excuse to raise a broader question about societal change.

Chazal's meals were very much centered on bread. Kind of like the standard
appetizer course at many Israeli Shabbos tables. The bread served as a cross
between spoon and plate -- you shovel up some food on your bread and eat.

Lefes (which Jastrow renders "lefas") and liftan on pas are no longer the
backbone of akhilas qeva or se'udos. We simply don't eat like that. A
sandwich is one kind of meal; eating with bread no longer /defines/
a meal.

And while I would be loathe to change something as major as allowing the
opening hamotzi cover all the foods in a meal, I wonder if the assumptions
Chazal had when stating this rule apply to how we eat a meal today.

On the example of non-chassidim and gartl:
> If the reason for a belt or gartel is related to being "a respectful form
> of dress", then RMBluke is raising an excellent point, and it should be
> okay to pray in a full-length gown, even without a belt or underwear. But
> my understanding is that the requirement for a belt is *not* related to
> fashion, but is specifically to make a separation between one's head and
> private parts, and would apply in all times and places. The reason
> non-chasidim don't wear a gartel is because the regular belt is sufficient,
> and even without an actual belt a waistband can suffice. (More details at
> Orach Chayim 91:2)

The issue is libo ro'eh es ha'erva. (If it were the heat, a tie would
work.)

The AhS (se'if 4) gives a reason to put a gartl on even if you are
wearing a belt. The pasuq reads "Hakhon liqras E-lokhekha Yisrael".
The gemara (Shabbos 10a) gives examples of such hakhanos. The AhS brings
down this gemara earlier (se'if 1) and refers to it here.

Putting on a gartl has become a traditional way to prepare oneself to
meet the RBSO, and even if today's fashion makes it rarely necessary
for ein libo ro'eh es ha'erva, the AhS believes the practice should not
be stopped.

And that's from the Litvisher poseiq known for finding meqoros for
justifying minhag! I would guess that in Litta, gartelach were far more
common than among today's "Litvish".

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 What you get by achieving your goals
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   is not as important as
Author: Widen Your Tent      what you become by achieving your goals.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF            - Henry David Thoreau

From RNSlifkin, a blog post titled "Karate Mussar".
http://www.rationalistjudaism.com/2020/12/karate-mussar.html

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

Rationalist Judaism
Thursday, December 31, 2020

Karate Mussar

I recently watched an amazing mussar series.

Karate isn't exactly my thing. But, like many people who grew up in the
80s, I watched and loved The Karate Kid. The nice kid -- awkward, poor
and scrawny Daniel Larusso -- is bullied by the mean kid; handsome,
wealthy jock Johnny Lawrence. But then Daniel learns karate from
wise mentor Mr. Miyagi, and defeats Johnny in the All-Valley Karate
championships! It was an immensely satisfying tale for teenagers.

Recently a sequel series was made, called Cobra Kai. It features the
original actors -- Ralph Macchio and William Zabka -- and is thus set
an astonishing thirty-four years later! But what's really incredible is
what they did with the storyline.

Naturally, Daniel and Johnny are training the next generation. So you'd
expect that Daniel, as the hero, is training the good kid, and Johnny,
as the bully, is training the bad kid. But the series flips that.
Johnny is the one training the good kid, and Daniel the bad kid!

But Cobra Kai goes much further. It spends most of the time presenting
things from Johnny's perspective.

For thirty-four years, one thing that we've known for sure is that Daniel
was the good guy and Johnny was the bad guy. But the sequel flips that on
its head. Sure, Johnny is no tzaddik, but he's a sympathetic character. He
had a rough home life. He became a bully because he himself was bullied
by his stepfather. And his version of what happened back in 1984 is very
different from Daniel's version. The way he saw it, Daniel was trying
to steal his girlfriend, and often provoked him.

Since then, after struggling with alcohol and employment problems, Johnny
is making a sincere effort to get his life back together, including
training bullied kids who need self-confidence. Daniel, meanwhile, has a
successful personal and professional life, and is basically a good guy,
but is way too smug and vindictive, and not willing to see that Johnny
might be a better person than he remembers.

The mussar lesson here is powerful. First, there's the way in which
we can be certain about a person for literally decades, and then turn
out to be wrong. Second is how Daniel and Johnny, despite both being
basically decent people, are still stuck with their childhood prejudices
and are each convinced that the other is awful beyond redemption. The show
portrays how each of them views everything that the other does through the
lens of their experience as teenagers. Instead of being able to get along
as old acquaintances, and to grow together, they keep spiraling downwards
due to their conviction that the other is evil and must be taken down.

This is a point that I've been trying to make in this forum for [6]several
[7]months [8]now. As a non-American, I have the benefit of a certain
detachedness from US politics, like the viewer of Cobra Kai. It makes it
possible to see clearly how partisanship and tribalism influence people
to interpret everything that the other side does in the worst possible
light. I've been trying to encourage people to try to look at things
from the perspective of others, but with limited effect.

The main argument that I use is as follows: If many people that you
otherwise regard as basically good people see things so entirely
differently from you, then surely there must be some merit in their
perspective, even if they are ultimately wrong? I mean, I am sympathetic
to why charedim are opposed to IDF service (it's not because they think
that Torah protects, it's because it fundamentally threatens their way
of life) and I can even understand why the charedi Gedolim [9]banned my
books. Surely if tens of millions of people view things very differently
from you, including plenty of people from your own background and social
circles, then one should try to understand their perspective and not
condemn them as utterly foolish/ evil?

If nothing that I wrote convinces you, then maybe try watching Cobra Kai.

... [Ad for supporting The Biblical Museum as well as what is now a
comment dialog of 14 comments deleted.]

Does anyone know if there are any issues regarding Bal Tosif when wearing
the new Techeiles today? (As an aside, one speaker who will address this
issue is R' Chaim Twerski - https://www.techeiles.org/yom-iyun).

Thanks and Good Shabbos,

Rafi Hecht
*rhe...@gmail.com* <rhe...@gmail.com>

-------------------------------------------------------


<http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rafihecht>
*Facebook:* *http://www.facebook.com/rhecht*
<http://www.facebook.com/rhecht>
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*Personal Site:* *www.rafihecht.com* <http://www.rafihecht.com>
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