Avodah Mailing List

Volume 39: Number 3

Tue, 05 Jan 2021

• 1. Re: Can a besula become pregnant? (Rich, Joel)
• 2. Re: Can a besula become pregnant? (Zev Sero)
• 3. Jewish impact (Alexander Seinfeld)
• 4. Targumim from Sinai (Sholom Simon)
• 5. Re: Why do they break a plate and glass? (Rich, Joel)
• 6. Responses to "Why do they break a plate and a glass at a chasunah?" (Prof. L. Levine)

I remember once hearing that there's a chazal somewhere, according to which
it is impossible for a besula to become pregnant from her first sexual act.
Is this accurate? If so, can someone point me to that chazal? And if there
*is* such a chazal, does anyone argue on it?

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(??) ?????? ???' - ?? ?? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ??????, ??? ????? ????? ??????? ????? ???? ??????? ????? ??????:
Kt
Joel rich
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On 3/1/21 8:32 am, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> I remember once hearing that there's a chazal somewhere, according to 
> which it is impossible for a besula to become pregnant from her first 
> sexual act. Is this accurate? If so, can someone point me?to that 
> chazal? And if there *is* such a chazal, does anyone argue on it?

Yes, it is definitely a maamar chazal, found in several places, e.g. 
Yevamos 34a, Brereshis Raba 45, Yalkut Shimoni Bereshis 16:4.

Exceptions include Hagar, Lot's daughters, Tamar, *perhaps* Leah,

-- 
Zev Sero            Wishing everyone a *healthy* and happy 5781
z...@sero.name       "May this year and its curses end
                      May a new year and its blessings begin"

Pirkei Avot Ch. 5 lists several worldwide calamities that God causes or
allows to occur in response to Jewish actions or inactions, including
?dever? (plague/pestilence).

It is possible that Avot only refers to Israel, not the world, despite the
language, ?comes to the world.?

Question - is there any source for this ethic being limited to those sins
and calamities listed there, or the contrary, for the ethic being extended
to sins or calamities not listed there?

RAM wrote:

> This morning, as I began learning Parshas Shemos, I noticed that the 
> first
> pesukim contain the word Ivri (Hebrew) several times in various forms, 
> and
> in every case, Onkelos translates it as some form of Yehudai (Jew). In 
> my
> opinion, this is a very reasonable translation if Onkelos was trying to
> explain the Torah to his contemporaries, but it is highly unlikely that 
> a
> translation dating from Sinai would have used this word.

I don't understand the stira.  As I learned it: Onkelos was explaining 
based on a Torah-mi-Sinai *understanding*.

> So I decided to
> post this as evidence that although the ideas and concepts which appear 
> in
> Onkelos' translation might date from Sinai, the exact words were 
> probably
> his own.

I was unaware that folks thought otherwise!

> I wondered why I didn't notice this translation in recent parshiyos. It
> turns out that forms of the word Ivri appear six times in Sefer 
> Bereshis
> (14:13, 39:14, 29:17, 40:15, 41:12, 43:32) and Onkelos *always* 
> translates
> it as some Aramaic form of Ivri -- "Hebrew", not "Jew".

I have a Sefer on Onkelos (Drazin and Wagner) which explains that in 
Berehis he renders Ivri literally, but when the family grew into a 
nation (in Shemos) he used the nation's name known among his 
contemporaries.  The authors say that it's Onkelos' tendency to update 
the names of nations and places as they were contemporaneously known.

FWIW,

-- Sholom

Glass-see brachot 30b at bottom
KT
Joel Rich
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I have received two interesting responses to my grandson Yisrael Meir"s question.

Ruth Stern wrote

"To cite Rav Schwab. A broken glass can be re-blown and then repaired.
China, once broken, can?t be repaired. The glass is broken to remember the
Bais Hamikdash which will be restored. The broken plate represents the fact
that the agreement, Tenaim,  cannot be canceled without a get."

Rabbi Dr. Ari Zivotofsky (who seems to have written an article about almost everything) wrote

https://jewishaction.com/religion/jewish-law/whats-the-truth-about-breaking-a-glass-at-a-wedding/

may have some information you are looking for.

This is a comprehensive article about this topic and is well worth reading.

YL
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