Avodah Mailing List

Volume 39: Number 24

Wed, 17 Mar 2021

• 1. Re: Soft Matzah (Akiva Miller)
• 2. Re: Soft Matzah (Micha Berger)
• 3. early maariv (Aryeh Frimer)
• 4. Cracking the History of Soft Matzah (Prof. L. Levine)
• 5. orthodox non-compliance with Covid rules (Rich, Joel)
• 6. Can one kasher drinking glasses for Pesach? (Prof. L. Levine)
• 7. Re: orthodox non-compliance with Covid rules (Joshua Meisner)

R' Micha Berger wrote:
> Tortillas and wraps are usually made from dough (belila avah).
> But they are sometimes made from batter (belila raqa). In
> which case, they would be mezonos, even if you are qoveia
> se'udah on a stack of them. So, check the label!

Two questions:

If a belila raqa is baked, wouldn't it still be pas haba b'kisnin? If
you need to check the label to determine something or other, then you're
admitting that this product does have tzuras hapas, aren't you?

The ingredient label can be very helpful in determining whether the
liquids are mostly water (pas gamur) or mostly mei peiros (pas haba
b'kisnin). But how would the label tell you whether it is belila avah
or raqa?

Akiva Miller

On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 07:53:54AM -0400, Akiva Miller wrote:
> If a belila rakah is baked, wouldn't it still be pas haba b'kisnin?...

See the AhS OC 158:28, quoting the BY. Two baked goods, one avah and one
raqa. The avah is "lechem gamur hu" and gets hamotzi and benching. And
the ones that is rakah and very thin is mezonos and al hamichyah. But,
as pas haba bekisnin -- it's a hamotzi if you are qoveia se'udah.

BUT in se'ifim 47-48 he talks about a different baked good that is rakah,
water and flour poured onto the kirah. The Tur says that it's mezonos
normally, hamotzi if you are qoveia' se'udah. The BY says it's always
mezonos -- he holds it's not lechem at all. (Which I concluded to mean,
not even PhBbK.)

In se'if 47, it is mezonos because there is even the littlest liquid
underneath it, even if it's just to stick. In 48, there is a goma under
it. Goma is apparentlly a pullrush or papyrus leaf. I am guessing that
is also about not sticking.

A modern factory bakery is greasing the baking surface to prevent
sticking, so I assumed the latter se'ifim were closer to our topic. (In
fact, it was the only case that stuck in my memory until I went back
to the siman and had an "oh yeah!". I was that sure that's the case we
typically face.)


> The ingredient label can be very helpful in determining whether the
> liquids are mostly water (pas gamur) or mostly mei peiros (pas haba
> b'kisnin). But how would the label tell you whether it is belila avah
> or raqa?

I didn't mean the ingredient label. I meant check if there is anything
written next to the hekhsher.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 We are great, and our foibles are great,
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   and therefore our troubles are great --
Author: Widen Your Tent      but our consolations will also be great.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                      - Rabbi AY Kook

Several individuals have asked me to elucidate my question appearing in
Avodah Digest, Vol 39, Issue 23 regarding early minha Maariv on Shabbat
going into Yom Tov

    If you look at the Nosei Kelim in SA OH 293:3 (e.g., Mishna Berura
no. 9), it is clear that Davening Minha/Maariv [before and After Plag -
with va-Todi'einu in Ma'ariv] early on Shabbat afternoon going into Yom
Tov (like this year), is considered a davar Tamu'ah and halakhically
dangerous since people may start with preparations for yom tov (Seder)
and even melakha - and not wait for Tseit ha-Kokhavim. Hence it is
permitted only bi-she'at ha-dehak (See Mishna Berura). The question is
whether with the change of clock to DST, starting the Seder as soon as
possible after tseit so the young children and zekeinim will be able to
stay up for the seder is enough of a She'at ha-dehak to permit it.

    Two poskim were consulted on 2 Nisan 5781 (March 15, 2021): Rav
Asher Zelig Weiss and Rav Avraham Shraga Stiglitz both Shlita -
and were meikel in such a case.

    It must be reiterated that no preparations or Melaka can be done
until Shabbat is over (Tseit haKokhavim). Only then can Yom Tov candles
be lit and the seder begin.

                 Kol Tuv and Pesach Kasher, Bari ve-Sameach
                         Aryeh

--------------------------------------------------
Dr. Aryeh A. Frimer
Ethel and David Resnick Professor Emeritus
   of Active Oxygen Chemistry
Chemistry Dept., Bar-Ilan University
Ramat Gan 5290002, ISRAEL
E-mail (office): Aryeh.Fri...@biu.ac.il.

This is a very interesting talk about soft matzah given by Rabbi dr. Ari Zivotofsky las year. The talk is at

https://www.torahinmotion.org/podcast/cracking-the-history-of-soft-matzah

Cracking the History of Soft Matzah | Torah In Motion<https://www.torahinmotion.org/podcast/cracking-the-history-of-soft-matzah>
Contact Us. Torah in Motion 3910 Bathurst Street, Suite 307 Toronto, ON M3H 5Z3 Canada Tel: (416) 633-5770 Toll Free: (866) 633-5770 i...@torahinmotion.org
www.torahinmotion.org
The source material for this talk is at

https://www.torahinmotion.org/sites/default/files/podcast/matzah_thick_thin_sources.pdf

To whet your appetite about this talk, see the second source about finding moldy bread on Pesach in the above pdf file.

YL
Matzah: Thin and Hard vs. Thick and Soft Ari Zivotofsky<https://www.torahinmotion.org/sites/default/files/podcast/matzah_thick_thin_sources.pdf>
1 Matzah: Thin and Hard vs. Thick and Soft Ari Zivotofsky (biblical mitzvah
to eat matzah on the first night of Pesach ? what is it?) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ??
www.torahinmotion.org

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IMHO the issue alluded to (in a post concerning orthodox non-compliance
with Covid rules) may be more of one of not seeing the forest for the
trees. When one is taught to look at the letter of the law exclusively one
can forget about the spirit of the law. The goal becomes the technical
compliance (e.g. claiming kids are part of a permitted demonstration rather
than learning in school) vs. technical and meta compliance (e.g. distancing
to try to save lives rather than to meet technical distance criteria)
Thoughts on whether this is a common issue? I guess the other side is not
looking at areas outside of ritual as being halachic issues?
KT
Joel Rich

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From today's OU Kosher Halacha Yomis


Q. Can one kasher drinking glasses for Pesach?

A. Shulchan Aruch (451:26) writes that glass does not absorb and therefore
does not need to be kashered. However, Rama (Orach Chaim 451:26) writes
that the minhag of Ashkenazim is that glass that had been used with hot
chametz may not be used on Pesach even if it was kashered. There are two
reasons given for this. One reason is because we compare glass, which is
made from sand, to cheres (earthenware), which is made from clay. Just as
cheres cannot be kashered, likewise glass may not be kashered. The other
reason is because we are concerned that one might not kasher glass properly
for fear it might crack. Chayei Adam 125:22 writes that if it is difficult
to purchase new drinking glasses for Pesach, glasses, which are used
primarily for cold drinks, may be kashered with hagalah.

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On Mar 17, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Rich, Joel wrote:
> IMHO the issue alluded to (in a post concerning orthodox non-compliance
> with Covid rules) may be more of one of not seeing the forest for the
> trees. When one is taught to look at the letter of the law exclusively one
> can forget about the spirit of the law. The goal becomes the technical
> compliance ...

This is a point that has been made often, even outside of the context
of the frum community (Zeynep Tufekci has a number of good articles
providing data points): that the fixation with hard rules such as
6 feet and 15 minutes rather than broad principles that could be
intelligently applied to specific situations (such as Japan's three
C's of avoiding close contact, crowded places, and closed spaces) and
a tendency for experts (or politicians, perhaps) to take hold of false
certainty (l'hakeil ul'hachmir) rather than a nuance born of an honest
acknowledgement of how little we knew are among the greatest systemic
failures of the Western COVID response.


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