Avodah Mailing List

Volume 40: Number 40

Tue, 07 Jun 2022

• 1. Re: Minhag America (Akiva Miller)
• 2. Ameilus BeTorah (Rabbi Meir G. Rabi)
• 3. Re: free will vs hashgacha (Akiva Miller)
• 4. free will vs hashgacha (Joel Rich)

.
R' Joel Rich asked:
> Is it fair to say that to a large extent Artscroll sets minhag
> America? (in its halacha publications and siddur instruction)

Yes, but there's nothing new here. There were other publishers before
ArtScroll, and there will be others after. (I still find certain words in
ArtScroll jarring, because the siddurim I grew up with 50 years ago were
different.) Whichever siddur is most popular in a given community, that
siddur tends to set the minhagim for that community, unless the leaders
make a specific effort to show the people where they diverge from it.

I once heard a version of The Golden Rule which stated, "Whoever has the
gold, makes the rules." What this means for this thread, is that if (for
example) a particular siddur becomes popular for no reason other than (for
example) its price or design, people will end up using its editors' choice
of text as well, for better or for worse. It is important to recognize that
to whatever degree ArtScroll is influencing us, we are accepting that
influence willingly. Anyone who has purchased an ArtScroll siddur did so
because the perceived benefits outweighed the perceived faults.

Is this any different than our body of Torah which is set - to a very large
extent - by which meforshim were popular enough to get printed and
reprinted over the centuries? I often think about the first printed
gemaras, and which Tosfos were chosen for publication. This is not the
thread for discussing WHO made those selections; my point is that whoever
it was, the issues and views which appeared in those particular Tosfos'n
have come to be a profound influence about everything in Torah today,
whereas the many many writings of the many many Tosifists which didn't
merit to appear in the standard Vilna Shas have much less influence.

Yes, we do often find teshuvos which reference those lesser-known writings.
My only point is that there is an imbalance, that some writings have more
influence simply because they had the mazel to be published to a wide
audience. Not at all different from ArtScroll's influence.

Akiva Miller
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Even when Yidden fulfill all the commandments - if we are not Ameilim
BeTorah HKBH will ....

It seems there must be a link between the Vilna Gaon's observation [opening
of Even Sheleimah] that the purpose of the Torah is Tikkun HaMiddos and
Ameilus BeTorah.
Would anyone like to share their thoughts?

Best,

Meir G. Rabi

0423 207 837
+61 423 207 837
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.
R' Joel Rich wrote:

> .... it occurred to me that given the butterfly effect God has
> a number of ways to ensure that an outcome he wants will occur
> and I wonder then what algorithm would he use to determine which
> one of those number of ways to get that specific result he would
> employ.

I note the use of singular nouns in the phrases "an outcome" and "which
one" and "that specific result", as if there is only one goal (or a small
set of goals) the God is aiming for. This goes directly against what I was
taught, that when God makes His plans, He considers ALL the outcomes and
results, even the very smallest of side effects and collateral results
which that plan will cause. "Butterfly effect" indeed! I am confident that
He chooses whichever plan will cause exactly those effects that He is
desirous of, and nothing that He does not want.

Unfortunately, I do not remember where I learned the above. For many years
I had thought it was derived from the very last pasuk in Tehillim 92:
"Tzuri v'lo avlasa bo - He is my Rock, and there is no crookedness in Him",
meaning that He will accomplish exactly what He wants to accomplish, with
precisely zero unexpected consequences. The classic example is that if
Hashem decides to punish or reward a particular individual, it will not
happen unless his family (and extended family, and community, and the world
at large) deserves the ripple effects which will result from that
punishment or reward.

Alas, I was unable to find this in the meforshim on Tehillim 92. Can anyone
suggest a different source?

Akiva Miller
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I note the use of singular nouns in the phrases "an outcome" and "which
one" and "that specific result", as if there is only one goal (or a small
set of goals) the God is aiming for. This goes directly against what I was
taught, that when God makes His plans, He considers ALL the outcomes and
results, even the very smallest of side effects and collateral results
which that plan will cause. "Butterfly effect" indeed! I am confident that
He chooses whichever plan will cause exactly those effects that He is
desirous of, and nothing that He does not want.
=================================
I'm discussing  a case where HKBH has to intervene so that a desired end be
accomplished (thought experiment - the sum total of everyone's free choice
would result in the annihilation of the Jewish people (lo aleinu) - how
does hkbh intervene to ensure this doesn't happen?)
KT
Joel Rich
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