Avodah Mailing List

Volume 41: Number 40

Wed, 24 May 2023

• 1. Barukh Dayan haEmes - R Seth Mandel zt"l (Sholom Simon)
• 2. Re: sfira bracha (Akiva Miller)
• 3. Re: Of Bullseyes, the Korban Cheesecake, and Dairy Bread". (Micha Berger)
• 4. Adorning the Shul with Greenery on Shavuos: Minhag Yisrael or Chukos HaGoyim? (Prof. L. Levine)
• 5. Dissuading a potential ger (Michael Poppers)
• 6. Re: sfira bracha (Micha Berger)
• 7. Re: Dissuading a potential ger (Michael Poppers)
• 8. Re: sfira bracha (Michael Poppers)

I was on a daily phone shiur that he gave for about 12 years, and he
broadened my perspective on halacha, and the metzius of the Jewish world,
more than any other person in my life.  I can't believe how much I learned
from him.  Enough so that something comes up almost every single day which
causes me to think about what he taught on the subject and/or how to look
at it in a broader context.

The loss is incalculable.

-- Sholom
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.
R' Joel rich asked:

> Given that the kahal says the bracha for sfira/hallel after
> the shatz/rabbi, does your kahal answer Baruch hu Baruch shmo
> to the shatz/rabbi?s bracha?

I understand that you are asking specifically about these two brachos, but
I think that an important preface to that discussion would be to talk about
Baruch Hu Uvaruch Sh'mo in *general*, including examples such as Birchos
Hashachar and Chazaras Hashatz.

It seems to me that this phrase has been dropping out of favor over the
past half-century, to the point where I find myself hearing someone say it,
and my reaction is, "Oh, yeah, I remember when everyone would say that."

I don't know why I hear it so rarely nowadays. I have a vague memory of
learning how it should be avoided when one does want to be yotzay in the
bracha, and perhaps we have extended it (wittingly or not) to the general
cases.

Akiva Miller
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On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 04:34:29PM +0000, Prof. L. Levine via Avodah wrote:
> From
> https://ohr.edu/this_week/insights_into_halacha/5154

> It seems that one of the earliest mentions of such a minhag is by the
> great Rema, ... who cites the 'prevailing custom' of eating dairy items
> specifically on Shavuos (OrachChaim 494, 3). Although there are many
> rationales and reasons opined through the ages to explain this custom...

Li nir'eh it didn't start out a minhag. The custom of eating milchigs on
Shavuos started in the same parts of Germany as the non-Jews who would
make Wittesmontag (White Monday) the Monday before their Pentacost.

No, I am not arguing chuqas haaku"m / derekh Emori. Because there is a
logical reason for milchigs parties a couple of months into spring.

First, there is finally grass in the fields. The cows are eating something
more rich than dried hay. Secondly, it's calving season. So, the milk is
rich and flavorful for the first time since mid-autumn. It is only logical
that our ancestors would consider milchig the more celebratory choice.

Then, the rabbanim found meanings one can inculcate through the practice,
and a minhag was born.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Today is the 46th day, which is
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   6 weeks and 4 days in/toward the omer.
Author: Widen Your Tent      Netzach sheb'Malchus: How can some forms of
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                       "unity" be over domineering?

Please see the article at

https://ohr.edu/this_week/insights_into_halacha/9889

Festooning with Foliage

In many shuls around the world, Chag HaShavuos represents ?going green.? I
am not referring to becoming environmentally friendly, but green in a more
literal sense. In honor of Shavuos, many shuls, such as Rav Breuer?s K?hal
Adas Yeshurun (KAJ) in Washington Heights, New York, and Shomrei HaChomos
in Ramot, Yerushalayim (Rabbi Fuch?s shul), receive entire forest-like
makeovers. With branches forming a Chuppah-like canopy over the bimah,
trees set up next to the Aron Kodesh, and greenery abounding, many entire
shuls are festively festooned for Zman Mattan Torah.


Yet, we find that other shuls do perform some adorning, but in a much more
minimalist manner, using only flowers and grasses. And of course, there are
shuls where no special Shavuos decorating is done at all. Indeed, there is
quite a varied spectrum of minhagim, with each Kehillah and shul following
its own traditions.[1]<https://ohr.edu/9889#_edn1> This
article sets out to explore the main prevailing minhagim customary
throughout Klal Yisrael in relation to this inyan, as well as their
halachic background.

See the above URL for much more.

Professor Yitzchok Levine




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(Bcc:ing SK, to whom RAM asked this Q earlier today; and I believe he
intended to ask the Q to me as well :).)
In Avodah V41n39, RAkivaM asked:
> In Megilas Rus 1:14, Naami successfully dissuaded Orpah from converting,
and in 1:15 she gives Ruth one last attempt: "Look, your sister-in-law has
returned to her people and to her gods; go follow your sister-in-law."
How is this not a violation of Lifnei Iver? <
(Suggesting an answer in honor of Dr. MJ Bernstein, who I understand
<https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/tribute-dr-moshe-bernstein-upon-his-retirement-from-yu-shlomo-zuckier/>
just "retired" from YC....)
I learned M'gilas Ruth w/ Dr. Bernstein -- I dare say he would point to the
repeated inflections of "lashuv" (which RAM would apparently translate as
"to return") in the first chapter.  Why does that matter?  Because in most
instances someone is 'return'ing (or being directed/desiring to 'return')
to or from something/one, making that the standard phraseology...so when an
inflection is used w/out such a prepositional phrase, it's remarkable, and
what are the exceptions? Verses 11-12 (Naomi's two "Shovna v'nosay!"s).  In
other words, Naomi is explicitly not telling Orpah and Ruth what to return
to.  Orpah then 'leaves the stage' -- but NB the text does not use the
'return' verb! -- and when Naomi speaks to Ruth in verse 15 as RAM wrote
above and explicitly details what/where Orpah returned to, she does not
detail what Ruth should return to.  Of course, one could 'read between the
lines', especially as Ruth's famous response includes "ameich ami
vEilokayich Elokay"; but Naomi merely said "acharei"; and Ruth echoes with
"al-tifg'i-vi...meiacharayich."

In sum, M'gilas Ruth is full of literary devices -- we've merely touched
upon one that is used in the first chapter -- and the reader/listener must
be careful to pay attention to what they say and what they do not
explicitly say.  Chag Sameach!
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On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 05:43:41AM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> I think that an important preface to that discussion would be to talk about
> Baruch Hu Uvaruch Sh'mo in *general*, including examples such as Birchos
> Hashachar and Chazaras Hashatz.
> 
> It seems to me that this phrase has been dropping out of favor over the
> past half-century, to the point where I find myself hearing someone say it,
> and my reaction is, "Oh, yeah, I remember when everyone would say that."

My theory -- Brisker lomdus. The source of most new hanhagos.

My experience included more R Shimondik Telzher Lomdus, rather than
Brisker, and what I am saying is true of Lomdus in general. It just
happens that what became widespread was the Brisker variant. (Which
in turn evolved from R Chaim's original by becoming more centered on
Patterns and a standard Pattern Library. [Capitalized to capture the
nuances of these words in Computer Programming jargon for those who
know it.)

Lomdus is different in kind than the classical analysis one used to
exclusively find in pesaq. Compare the BY, Darkhei Moshe, AhS, or IM,
for examples, with how you were probably taught to analyze "shas and
posqim" in yeshiva.

But now, lomdus has entered the poseiq's tool set.

1- This deprecates the role of accepted practice ("mimeticism"), since
it has no roles in lomdus.

2- Lomdus isn't a tool for deciding why to hold one way and not the other.
It aims at understanding the point of contention so that both sides are
(hopefully equally) reasonable.

Which leads to a greater use of "safeiq logic" in pesaq. (Or perhaps:
... rather than actually pasqening.) Being chosheish for rishon X's
shitah, rov rishonim hold, etc... (And these too could be beyond the
evidence: being chosheish for my lomdus's understanding of rishon X.)

To apply my theory to your example:

1- The fact that everyone used to say BHuVS doesn't drive a search for
why we hold that way. It isn't a machria.

2- Now that a formerly closed question is open, we are deciding to be
chosheish for the Gra's shitah (Tosefes Maaseh Rav) that once shouldn't
answer "amein" if they interrupted the berakhah with it. Never mind not
being yotzei -- eg chazarat hashatz, if you follow R Chaim Brisker's diyuq
that the Rambam is talking about a second chiyuv of tefillas hatzibbur.
And this outweighs the nice-but-non-mandatory fulfillment of "Ki sheim H'
eqra, havu godel Leilokeinu" that dates back at least to the Roqeiach (who
also gives "Barukh Sheim Kevod Malkhuso le'olam va'ed" as an option), and
is recorded in the Tur as shitas haRosh. (The Rosh and Roqeiach being
contemporaries.) And from there to the SA, etc...

I could picture the AhS saying that common practice proves we hold like
the Rosh and not the like the Gra. Done.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

PS: SPeaking of new hanhagos... I recently startled two thirty-somethings
by informing them that when I was a kid, even when I got married, most
men were not careful to find someone else to say VaYekhulu with if they
couldn't say it with the minyan.

In context, it was two brothers. And I pointed out that saying eidus with
your brother shouldn't be much better. Nor is eidus accepted at night. One
can witness something (e.g. a wedding) but one cannot give the eidus over,
anyway. Then I added that there is really no need, as this is a Brisker
thing, not actual din. You won't find it in the MB or AhS, and most people
didn't for much of my life.

-- 
Micha Berger                 Today is the 47th day, which is
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   6 weeks and 5 days in/toward the omer.
Author: Widen Your Tent      Hod sheb'Malchus: What is glorious about
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF             unity-how does it draw out one's soul?

[RMP top-quoted just the last sentence. But his email client's plain-text
version was hard to read, I went in the email to edit, and used the bottom
quote to give that sentence context.  -micha]

On Mon, May 22, 2023 at 10:07PM Michael Poppers <michaelpopp...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> In Avodah V41n39, RAkivaM asked:
>> In Megilas Rus 1:14, Naami successfully dissuaded Orpah from
>> converting, and in 1:15 she gives Ruth one last attempt: "Look, your
>> sister-in-law has returned to her people and to her gods; go follow your
>> sister-in-law."
>> How is this not a violation of Lifnei Iver? <
...
> I learned M'gilas Ruth w/ Dr. Bernstein -- I dare say he would point to
> the repeated inflections of "lashuv" (which RAM would apparently translate
> as "to return") in the first chapter.  Why does that matter?  Because in
> most instances someone is 'return'ing (or being directed/desiring to
> 'return') to or from something/one, making that the standard
> phraseology...so when an inflection is used w/out such a prepositional
> phrase, it's remarkable, and what are the exceptions? Verses 11-12 (Naomi's
> two "Shovna v'nosay!"s).  In other words, Naomi is explicitly not telling
> Orpah and Ruth what to return to.  Orpah then 'leaves the stage' -- but NB
> the text does not use the 'return' verb! -- and when Naomi speaks to Ruth
> in verse 15 as RAM wrote above and explicitly details what/where Orpah
> returned to, she does not detail what Ruth should return to.  Of course,
> one could 'read between the lines', especially as Ruth's famous response
> includes "ameich ami vEilokayich Elokay"; but Naomi merely said "acharei";
> and Ruth echoes with "al-tifg'i-vi...meiacharayich."

I was not clear.  For the first & only time in the pereq
<https://mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2901.htm>, we see the use of this
particular preposition; and more importantly, it's "acharei" (or a variant
thereof) rather than "acheir" and denotes a distancing (for more on this,
see <https://allparsha.org/p/44452>), which I would read as Naomi saying,
"Don't get too close to one who is returning to her [false] god(s)" (and
Ruth not wishing to distance herself from Naomi).

Re R'Micha's response to RJR in Avodah V41n38
<http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol41/v41n038.shtml>:
> The qehillah, no.

Frankly, in most situations I would think it rather difficult to tell
whether "the tzibbur" is saying BHuSH to the SHaTZ's "liqro/ligmor"
b'racha (unless, of course, we're discussing a tzibbur that normally says
BHuSH as loudly as "Amein!" even to non-chazaras-haSHaTZ b'rachos...).

Does any maqom have a minhag to or not to say BHuSH to such a b'racha (and
on the subject of minhag hamaqom specifically re Hallel, see Mishnayos
Sukkah 3:11 <https://www.sefaria.org/Mishnah_Sukkah.3.11?lang=bi> :))?

> it seems to me that saying it would be another way out of RYBS's problem

Not to avoid such a tzrichos vs. einam tzrichos conundrum, but simply
because I hear sheim H' and am allowed to respond (seemingly -- and my
Shul's Rav [bcc:ed] confirmed this for me and RAM this morning -- there
is not an issue of hefseiq between the end of chazaras haSHaTZ and Hallel
to the degree there is between the end of chazaras haSHaTZ and Tachanun),
I do respond BHuSH to the SHaTZ's "liqro/ligmor" b'racha; and bimchilas
k'vod RYBS z'l', the known practice of the assumed (by dint of RJR's
"given") tzibbur to say the b'racha themselves would strongly imply
they do not want to be yotzei b'vircas haSHaTZ any more than they want
to be yotzei when the Rav or SHaTZ initially says "al s'firas haOmer"
at the end of Ma'ariv (and yes, I say BHuSH then, too :)).

Chag Sameach! and
all the best from
Michael Poppers  Elizabeth, NJ, USA


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