Avodah Mailing List

Volume 41: Number 62

Thu, 24 Aug 2023

• 1. Kallah's "acceptance" of Ring (Aryeh Frimer)
• 2. Forgiveness, Mollifying, Delegation of Friends (Rabbi Meir G. Rabi)
• 3. Medrash ? (Joel Rich)
• 4. Re Bircas haL'vana/"Kiddush L'vana" (was "Minyan Man?") (Michael Poppers)
• 5. nisyonot (Joel Rich)
• 6. megilot not read from a klaf (Joel Rich)
• 7. Re: nisyonot (Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer)

     I have heard of Mesadrei Kiddushin Telling the Kallah to bend here
     index finger once the wedding ring has been placed on it - as a sign
     of acceptance.   I have searched  many leading seforim on Hilkhot
     Kiddushin and find no such practice mentioned or required.  Has anyone
     seen anything on the topic?
    Much thanks in Advance
            Aryeh  Frimer

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Dr. Aryeh A. Frimer
Ethel and David Resnick Professor Emeritus
   of Active Oxygen Chemistry
Chemistry Dept., Bar-Ilan University
Ramat Gan 5290002, ISRAEL
E-mail (office): Aryeh.Fri...@biu.ac.il

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryeh_Frimer

Tel: 972-3-5318610; Fax: 972-3-7384053
Tel Home: 972-8-9473819/9470834
E-mail (home): Frim...@zahav.net.il
Cellphone: 972-54-7540761
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Has anyone participated in an event such as described below? or known of
anyone engaging the following procedure?

I have vague recollections as a youngster, where the Rov would announce at
the Levaya, Whoever wishes to ask the Niftar for Mechilah ... and a couple
of elderly Yidden would shuffle up to the Aron and mostly, hang their heads
in shame whilst quietly mumbling - I suppose because many in attendance
were aware of some Broigez between them and the Niftar.

Has anyone heard of someone going to a Kever with a Minyan, enunciate their
wrongdoings, and ask Mechilah?

from AlHaTorah.org; Translated and annotated by Rabbi Eliyahu Touger
(Moznaim Publishing, 1986?2007)

9) Teshuvah and Yom Kippur only atone for sins between man and God; for
example, a person who ate a forbidden food or engaged in forbidden sexual
relations, and the like. However, sins between man and man; for example,
someone who injures a colleague, curses a colleague, steals from him, or
the like will never be forgiven until he gives his colleague what he owes
him and appeases him.

[It must be emphasized that] even if a person restores the money that he
owes [the person he wronged], he must appease him and ask him to forgive
him.
Even if a person only upset a colleague by saying [certain] things, he must
appease him and approach him [repeatedly] until he forgives him.
If his colleague does not desire to forgive him, he should bring a group of
three of his friends

RaMBaM describes them as a Shurah; I am inclined to translate that as a
Delegation meaning formally not casually
The Gemara Yuma describes them as a Shurah, as does the SeMaG;
The ShA [OCh 606] describes them as Anashim - why does he alter Shurah?

a delegation of 3 of his friends
whose friends? the victim's or the aggressor's?
Probably the victims because they are there to persuade the victim as his
friends who understand him and can better understand his suffering and feel
that the offer made by the aggressor is reasonable and that his remorse is
sincere and ought to be accepted.
This means the aggressor has ALREADY spoken with these three friends and
explained the circumstances and they have agreed and are willing to
approach their friend to persuade him to accept.

This is why the Beis Din cannot adjudicate this process, they are unable to
relate to the personal perspectives of wither the victim of the aggressor.
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Someone mentioned to me a medrash that Shir Hashirim has 117 psukim because
David Hamelech had 3 sins which deserved malkot (3x39=117)
Anyone know where this is found?
KT
Joel  Rich
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Reading RAM's V41n61 comments on "Kiddush Levana", I'm not aware of any
mandate for a *tzibbur* nor for any reason to say Qaddish -- granted, many
do say Qaddish nowadays, but considering the issues/problems (one of which
RAM touched upon), I think all the additions to what at its core is simply
a *b'racha* may constitute "tafasta m'ruba...."

BTW, may I note what to me seems a really-nice summary of the *halachos* --
see https://www.halachafortoday.com/kiddush-levana .
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I was comforted to hear that R H Schachter believes that some people are
given nisyonot that they can?t overcome and thus are held blameless (it
took me decades to come to believe that after being constantly told the
opposite). Your thoughts?
KT
Joel Rich
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If you attend a minyan where the haftara (or any of the megilot)are not
read from a klaf, what is the kahal?s practice (and has the shul rav
directed this) during the haftara reading? 1. listen intently to each word
2. read along word for word with the one reading from the bima 3. read by
oneself at their own pace 4. other ________.
KT
Joel Rich
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On Aug 22, 2023, 5:34 PM, at 5:34 PM, Joel Rich wrote:
>I was comforted to hear that R H Schachter believes that some people are
>given nisyonot that they can't overcome and thus are held blameless (it
>took me decades to come to believe that after being constantly told the
>opposite). Your thoughts?

Tzidkas HaTzaddik #43.

[<https://www.sefaria.org/Tzidkat_HaTzadik.43> -micha]


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