Avodah Mailing List

Volume 41: Number 73

Sun, 15 Oct 2023

• 1. Re: Zman Simchaseinu (Micha Berger)
• 2. One Rabbi's Dream to Close All Shuls (micha)
• 3. Aruch Hashulchan Quote (Joel Rich)
• 4. minyan of exactly ten and nine of them are waiting for the tenth (Joel Rich)
• 5. Amora Differing with Tanna (Zvi Lampel)

On Thu, Oct 05, 2023 at 05:15:27PM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> And Shmini Atzeres / Simchas Torah even more so! Not even any joyous
> mitzvos like sukkah or lulav to bog us down. Only the after-party, as the
> medrash so vividly describes it. And isn't that the best part of the whole
> event?

I think that's what "Atzeres" means, thus Chazal's name for Shavu'os.

No special ediyos commemoratign some event. A day to cap the process we
have been celebrating since the previous chagim (or, before Purim: chag).

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

Moving this conversation from Areivim.

On Sun, Oct 08, 2023 at 08:35:05PM -0500, Brent Kaufman via Areivim wrote:
>> Rabbi SR Hirsch wrote that closing "all synagogues by Jewish hands would
>> constitute the strongest protest against the abandonment of the Torah in
>> home and life."

A longer quote, from Aish <https://aish.com/one-rabbis-dream-to-close-all-shuls>
the web site with which this conversation began:
   If I had the power I would provisionally close all synagogues for a
   hundred years. Do not tremble at the thought of it, Jewish heart. What
   would happen? Jews and Jewesses without synagogues, desiring to remain
   such, would be forced to concentrate on a Jewish life and a Jewish
   Home. The Jewish officials connected with the synagogue would have
   to look to the only opportunity now open to them to teach young and
   old how to live a Jewish life and how to build a Jewish home.

> It's hard to say if RSRH was referring to the Reform Movement when he wrote
> "... and life", but I doubt it would do much to weaken their movement...

I took him as saying something very different, but I assumed the whole
thing was guzma.

Judaism is about the "home and life". Shul should be a very small part
of it.

If people act like their Judaism is first and foremost about shul worship,
then the synagogue is getting in the way of their Judaism.

And it was that which RSRH was preaching against.

Nothing about Reform.


To bring this to inyana deyoma: It is important to daven during an eis
tzarah.

But, as R Scott Kahn recently wrote:
    Prayer doesn't replace action,
    it supplements it.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 For those with faith there are no questions.
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   For those who lack faith there are no answers.
Author: Widen Your Tent                        - Rav Yaakov of Radzimin
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF

Two (IMHO) great quotes from the Aruch Hashulchan (C?M 149:22) discussing
an individual having a chazaka in a mitzva (my rough translation)

1 ?all of this is discussing a chazaka that has an associated claim such as
the community granted him the mitzva in perpetuity. But if he appropriated
it for himself without the community?s assent, there?s nothing to his
chazaka?

2 discussing the status of the chazaka of a former house minyan when a
permanent shul is built ?as it is known that multiple individual minyanim
cause destruction in the city.?

Thoughts?

Hashem Oz Lamo Yiten Hashem Yvarech Et Amo Bashalom

Joel Rich
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The S?A (O?C 55:6) discusses what to do if you have a minyan of exactly ten
and nine of them are waiting for the tenth to finish his amida so as to
start chazarat hashatz. While it?s encouraged to wait, in a case of need
the shatz may begin his chazara. I didn?t notice anyone saying that the
singleton should consider speeding up so as not to hold the minyan back.
Any thoughts?

Hashem Oz Lamo Yiten Hashem Yvarech Et Amo Bashalom
Joel Rich
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In Dynamics of Dispute/Understanding Machlokes, I noted an intriguing (but
supported by several Gemara passages) assertion by the Rambam (Mamrim 2:1):
A Bes Din Gadol, regardless of its status b-chochmah u-b-minyan, can
overturn halachos an earlier Beis Din Gadol generated by means of
darshaning pesukim. (Something it may not do regarding rabbinical decrees.)
I then noted a problem: An Amora's opinion is generally expected to be
consistent not only with the Mishna's final decisions, but also with at
least one Tanna's, and I questioned why this must be so regarding d'oraisa
halachos in face of the Rambam's assertion. (I.e., why can't an Amora
suggest the Bes Din Gadol of his time overturn a halacha arrived at through
darshaning?)

I proposed that an explanation for this is that from the Yerushalmi on Peah
2:6 we see that the head of the first generation of Amoraim, Rebbi Yochanan
bar Nafcha, instituted the policy of refraining from questioning any Mishna
(even on non-rabbinical halachos) on the grounds that it was no longer
clear which d'oraissa halachos stated by Tannaim had originated through
drashos, making them contestable, and which originated from Sinai, making
them incontestable.

I came across a Gemara passage that at first sight disproves this, but
after consideration supports it.

Chagiga 9a has a machlokes between Rebbi Oshiya and Rebbi Yochanan himself
(concerning tashlumin of a Chagiga offering that one did not offer on the
first day of Sukkos. They disagree over how to understand the pesukim, and
the Gemara points out the nafka minah between them.

Now, Rebbi Oshiya was a Tanna. Indeed, his braisos (nusachs of
Mishnah commentary) were considered fully reliable (as well as those of
Rebbi Chiya). How could the Amora Rebbi Yochanan disagree with a Tanna over
how to understand the pesukim and the Mishnah's understanding of them? What
happened to his fear that a Tanna's assertion is a kabala miSinai?

Moreover, Rebbi Yochonan was the talmid muvhak of Rebbi Oshiya. How could
he disagree with his rebbi?

But therein lies the answer! Being a talmid muvhak of Rebbi Oshiya, and
having this machlokes face-to-face with him, Rebbi Yochonan would be very
aware of whether Rebbi Oshiya's interpretation of the pesukim was a kabala
miSinai. Rebbi Oshiya would surely tell him! So since he knew that the
interpretation was a sevara and not miSinai, Rebbi Yochonon felt free to
disagree.

Zvi Lampel
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