Avodah Mailing List

Volume 42: Number 83

Sun, 29 Dec 2024

• 1. Concordance of Onkelos (Akiva Miller)
• 2. Kalah NaAh VeChasudah - Midvar Sheker (Rabbi Meir G. Rabi)
• 3. Jewish customs by R Dr Zvi Ron (Joel Rich)
• 4. Rav Tanna Upalig (Joel Rich)
• 5. Re: Concordance of Onkelos (Moshe Y. Gluck)

.
In the few years that I've been learning Chumash with Onkelos, I've become
fascinated with his translation style, and I have many conjectures which
would be a lot easier to research if I had the right tools.

For example, consider the Aramaic word "rav" (resh beis), or, with the
definite article, "raba" (resh beis aleph). Onkelos seems to use this exact
same Aramaic word as a translation of several different Hebrew words. For
example, he uses it for a Jewish Nasi (Bemidbar 7:12), an Edomi Aluf
(Bereshis 36:15), and a Mitzri Saris (Bereshis 37:36). [Those are just
examples; these words appear in many pesukim.]

Last week I noticed the word Aluf appear many times near the end of
Vayishlach, and I wondered about its exact meaning. Then I discovered that
in the great majority of cases throughout Tanach, Aluf appears in the
context of Edom. Given that Onkelos translates it the same way as Nasi, I'm
wondering it Aluf might not be a Hebrew word at all, but a
transliteration of the title the Edom gave to their leaders.

This week, I saw the same thing about many of the Egyptians who Yosef came
into contact with. They are described/titled as "s'ris", but Onkelos
translates it consistently as some form of the word "rav". So I started to
wonder if "saris" might *not* be Hebrew for "eunuch" as I had thought, but
simply be the Mitzri equivalent of Aluf. Lo and behold, I was surprised to
find that *none* of my Chumash translations have "eunuch" in this parsha,
and it seems that I have just now stumbled onto something that most of you
already knew. [My memory is awful, but it is likely that in the past, I
noticed that "saris" was translated as minister or chief or something
similar, but I had shrugged it off as a euphemism. Today I have come to
realize that it's not a euphemism for eunuch, but an accurate translation
of the Egyptian title.]

But I'd still love to find a concordance of Onkelos. I'd look for other
instances of "rav", "raba", and "rav'rvei" (the plural). After all, Edom
and Mitzrayim aren't the only other nations mentioned in the Chumash. And
there are lots of other words I'd like to look up also. And if no one knows
of a concordance, does anyone know of a website that has an
easily-searchable text of Onkelos?

Thanks!

Akiva Miller

PS - I just came across Rashi on Bereshis 41:45, who says that Potiphar and
Poti-Fera are the same person, and that he was indeed impotent. But Rashi's
description of how he became impotent seems to confirm my suspicion, that
referring to him as a saris has less to do with biology, and more to do
with politics.
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R Micha posted - if you need to lie mipenei darkei shalom, it is
better to avoid
lying overtly and rather communicate obliquely which 'allows' the other
person to reach their own misunderstanding.
for example - "Anokhi. Eisav bekhorekha" knowing Yitzchaq would assume
Yaaqov was saying
"Anoki Eisav bererekha". (As per Rashi.)
Or "Kalah na'ah vechasudah"
because in the Chasan's eyes, she certainly is no matter who she is
objectively.
&&&&&&
these 2 examples are significantly different, in the former YaAkov WANTS
his father to reach the wrong conclusion in order to prevent Eisav getting
the Beracha and in order to prevent his father giving the Beracha, and we
presume because he wanted the Beracha for himself,
i.e. a self serving deception

That is utterly different from Kalah NaAh VeChasudah where the intent is to
make someone happy and to promote a harmonious relationship.

Also, R Micha seems to be suggesting that YaAkov was 'being economical with
the truth' Mipnei D Shalom; is there a source for this?
Besides what or whose Shalom?
Shalom for YaAkovs convenience? To make Rivkah happy? To make Yitzchok
happy? To make Eisav happy?

Furthermore, is it not a problem of BeHani Kavshi Derachamana Lamah Lach,
people must not mix into HKBH's arrangements, it was wrong and punishable
by death, for king Chizkiyahu to desist from having children because he
foresaw that his children would be terribly evil and destructive.
And so too Rivkah and YaAkov ought not have engaged in any deceptive
activity in order to help HKBH achieve the 'correct' outcome.
&&&&&&

R Micha also reflects upon partial truths, like Hashem reporting that Sarah
said she was too old but omitting that she said Avraham was too old.
It seems unlikely that Sarah Immenu, already aware that she had experienced
at least an early step indicating the restoration of her childbearing
abilities (the bread she'd made was not provided to the visitors because
she became Temei'ah) was reflecting EVEN THOUGH I've experienced this
rejuvenation how can I have children from my master who is too old.
Acharei Belosi Haysa Li Ednah, she was ridiculing the blessing of the
foolish visitors, it's impossible for me to have children EVEN THOUGH I've
experienced this rejuvenation.
Indeed, this makes the observations of the RaMBaN truly meaningful, after
having witnessed this 'miracle' why not recognise that HKBH can do the same
for AAvinu?
&&&&&&&&

+++++++++++
R Micha also posted - there are 2 issurim.
geneivas da'as - Leaving out elements of the truth, or presenting the truth
in a manner you know will be misunderstood.
midevar sheqer tirchaq - since you knew what you meant and it was true.

Please expand upon these because I do not properly understand; re Midvar
Shekker Tirchak - the Halacha, based on the Gemara Shavuos 31a, prohibits
presenting oneself to intimidate a defendant thereby pushing him to admit
the truth (win win in today's twisted word plays, the defendant will not
lie and and violate an oath, and the money goes to the rightful owner) even
by just creating the image that the defendant misconstrues and mistakenly
believes that the claimant has a second witness,

This prohibition is all the more astonishing in that the Gemara suggests it
is a Torah sage that makes this request of a close Talmid.
In spite of the idea being entirely honourably motivated and the request to
participate in this scheme is from ones trusted Rosh Yeshivah!

But the Q R Micha alluded to is a good one, why are these Sugyas not
linked, not presented in the same Gemara? One in Chullin, Geneivas DaAs,
the other, MShTirchak, in Shavuos?
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Worthwhile reading ? Jewish customs by R Dr Zvi Ron. Deeply researched in
both halachic and secular scholarship, my general take is that one needs
both in order to understand the likely evolution of many minhagim.
Apparently historical realia make a difference and it?s not so bad to
incorporate general societal expressions into minhagiam (eg expressions of
joy and sadness). It also seems minhagim can be a convenient vehicle for
transmitting currently necessary messages (you can see when novel
explanations appear throughout history for ancient minhagim, especially
those that may have started with a practical technology which was
supplanted {eg feather for bdikat chametz})
bsotot tovot
joel rich
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I?ve been looking into the statement  Rav Tanna Upalig. One place where
it's an issue is beitza 9a. Lots of questions in general, but the one
specific one I?d be interested in hearing people?s opinions on is the
comment (there) by both Rashi and Tosfot that Rav was the greatest in his
generation modified by the exception of Shmuel. The whole swing generation
question is of interest by why wasn?t Shmuel also included in the tanna
category. Why sometimes is this principle invoked (five or six times) and
sometimes not? I?ve found a number of approaches but looking for more?
bsorot tovot
joel rich
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>
>
> RAM:
> But I'd still love to find a concordance of Onkelos. I'd look for other
> instances of "rav", "raba", and "rav'rvei" (the plural). After all, Edom
> and Mitzrayim aren't the only other nations mentioned in the Chumash. And
> there are lots of other words I'd like to look up also. And if no one knows
> of a concordance, does anyone know of a website that has an
> easily-searchable text of Onkelos?
>
>
You should be able to do this on Sefaria:
https://github.com/Sefaria/Sefaria-Project/issues/378#issuecomment-833264022

MYG
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